11-04-2008 08:56 AM
#1
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11-04-2008 08:59 AM
#2
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200 bbs, or whichever stack approximates a calling range of: | |
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11-04-2008 09:52 AM
#3
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11-04-2008 10:29 AM
#4
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In what way? You gave no details about the opponent, so the first step is to make the assumption of their calling range. Am I incorrect in assuming that the shorter the stack, the wider the range, and the wider the range the more profitable the move? Thus, as the opponents stack increases, his calling range shrinks, thusly moving our open QQ push to the -EV column? | |
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11-04-2008 11:09 AM
#5
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Guest
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11-04-2008 11:18 AM
#6
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11-04-2008 11:32 AM
#7
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Re: Extra Credit Math Question
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11-04-2008 11:40 AM
#8
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11-04-2008 11:41 AM
#9
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I forgot were holding 2 cards, so: | |
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11-04-2008 11:44 AM
#10
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11-04-2008 11:55 AM
#11
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11-04-2008 11:56 AM
#12
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11-04-2008 12:34 PM
#13
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11-04-2008 12:42 PM
#14
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How about it's pretty much always -EV unless you have ~10 BB because you can gain more value out of weaker hands with a standard raise and play poker style. |
11-04-2008 12:43 PM
#15
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Why are we trying to find the least possible EV way to approach this? Why aren't we trying to find the most +EV stack to do this to? | |
11-04-2008 12:50 PM
#16
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This topic shouldn't be in the beginners section if people who have an in-depth poker knowledge aren't able to answer it. |
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11-04-2008 12:54 PM
#17
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11-04-2008 12:57 PM
#18
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11-04-2008 12:59 PM
#19
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11-04-2008 01:20 PM
#20
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If we want to find the smallest stack where pushing could be -EV then we should assume that villain has the calling range that hurts QQ most. If stacks are deep this is just the hands that have 50%+ equity against QQ, i.e. QQ+. So, assuming that the stack size S is large enough that AKs would make a mistake by calling (S > 13BB or so), our EV is never less than 1/1225 of |
11-04-2008 01:21 PM
#21
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Well yeah I didn't mean to say it would be -EV I just mean when would you actually use this "theory" if you were sitting down at a cash game and always had 100BB on you? |
11-04-2008 01:24 PM
#22
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11-04-2008 01:43 PM
#23
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Anything more than 239bbs | |
11-04-2008 01:56 PM
#24
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Someone please break this down for the noobs. I can handle the math, I just need to understand the decision process. | |
11-04-2008 02:26 PM
#25
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I'm assuming a calling range of QQ+, AK: |
11-04-2008 02:55 PM
#26
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1326 total starting hands, you have exactly 1 of them. So, if the opponent could be dealt some magical hand of jokers which has 100% equity once in 1326 hands then we win 1 bb 1325 times and lose our stack once. Thus, we would win 1 bb for 1325/1326 cases and lose every thing for one. For it to be neutral EV, we'd need a stack of 1325bbs. | |
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11-04-2008 03:17 PM
#27
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This is all a little rough. |
11-04-2008 03:23 PM
#28
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Hmm... I'm thinking about this further at work and wondering if it is a figure relative to the villians stack... instead of a 'magical figure' that I'm trying to inspire the math in me head to support... | |
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11-04-2008 04:00 PM
#29
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Things to consider. | |
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11-04-2008 04:22 PM
#30
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Re: Extra Credit Math Question
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11-04-2008 04:52 PM
#31
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op knows that we're opening AQ+ TT+? | |
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11-04-2008 04:53 PM
#32
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Ok I kinda understand what you mean now. |
11-04-2008 05:08 PM
#33
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Guest
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11-04-2008 05:18 PM
#34
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11-04-2008 05:24 PM
#35
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Guest
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11-04-2008 05:30 PM
#36
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If he assumes we're never folding since we're getting 2:1, he should shove with a range that doesn't lay us appropriate pot odds. QQ+ (which has 68.18% equity against our opening range). | |
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11-05-2008 09:08 AM
#37
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11-05-2008 09:15 AM
#38
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I will use rounded numbers kettle, but the main gist is: |
11-05-2008 09:35 AM
#39
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Re: Extra Credit Math Question[quote="spoonitnow"] | |
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11-05-2008 01:21 PM
#40
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Guest
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Spoon did all this math when he could have just posted the Sklansky-Chubukov rankings. |
11-05-2008 02:04 PM
#41
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Question number two. Well he's going to shrink his range to one better than we are playing so we should shrink our range too. | |
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11-05-2008 02:21 PM
#42
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Guest
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We put in 5BB, villain shoves 15BB |
11-05-2008 05:50 PM
#43
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11-05-2008 09:26 PM
#44
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Guest
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11-05-2008 10:39 PM
#45
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ez thread | |
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