Donking Out

Here is the type of situation:

You raise in MP with 99 or perhaps AJ-AK, but lets call it AK as that is the common one everyone raises with.

The big blind calls.

Flop: 964 rainbow.

Bigblind donks out a 1/2 pot sized to pot sized bet. What do you do? Even if you know BB donks out a lot or is one of those players who religously believes checking shows weakness and you should always bet when it's your turn?

We've all seen it:
You have TT, UTG limps and you raise to 5xBB and he flat calls. Flop is J74 or something and he minbets. Raising inflates the pot when you probably won't like the next card and flat calling will make around 6/10 of these type of villains pot the turn. Folding tens on a J high flop with 12:1 pot odds is clearly the worst option.

So how do you deal with donking out? Essentially it is someone taking the control away from you when you have a hand but not one you want to play a big pot with. Does anyone here habitually donk out into preflop raisers? I really hate the play. Perhaps that's a sign that it's not the worst thing in the world to be doing?

Originally Posted by gingerwizard

Essentially it is someone taking the control away from you when you have a hand but not one you want to play a big pot with.

If we fire off a decent raise when we think it is likely he will fold, surely we are not commited to playing a big pot if we get called and he leads the turn?

I often decide when raising that this is my one and only attempt to take the pot down (obv. things change if the turn helps me out) - This is particularly true if villain folds the majority of the time to flop bets but much less often on later streets.

against some tight nitt, i might just call a small donk bet with my unimproved AK and look for some good turn and river bluffing situations when my specific opponent shows weakness but definitely fold to another big turn donk bet. Of course, this call bluff doesn't really work very well if you are playing with loose fish or calling stations.
With the second pair on the flop, i like to make some moderate 2.5-3x raise to gain some information and fold to a big turn bet or check behind if called.

Originally Posted by HiLo

Originally Posted by gingerwizard

Essentially it is someone taking the control away from you when you have a hand but not one you want to play a big pot with.

If we fire off a decent raise when we think it is likely he will fold, surely we are not commited to playing a big pot if we get called and he leads the turn?

I often decide when raising that this is my one and only attempt to take the pot down (obv. things change if the turn helps me out) - This is particularly true if villain folds the majority of the time to flop bets but much less often on later streets.

regarding your first scenario. I'd like to point something out here: if the play is causing trouble, maybe it's not such a "donk" move. Villian has taken control of the hand. That's what betting is supposed to do. He may be bluffing. You can beat a total bluff, but that's all you can beat, unimproved.

I do use this play sometimes for the exact reason you're talking about. When I "donk" bet on a flop that has very little chance of having improved the PF raiser, I'm trying to get him to answer a question; "how much do you like your hand?". I'm not just doing it because I think my 55 is a whopper. I'm taking a risk. It's what makes poker different from, say, Baccarat.

I know you know this stuff because I've read some of your posts. I'm just suggesting you look at it from a different perspective.

I actually pointed out that it might be a good move and wondered what some of the "old hands" thought about it

the game of poker is constantly evolving.

last year, isolations and cont bets were the "in thing".
as were blind steals in tourneys.

this year we have light reraising (thanks NLT&P). And restealing in tourneys. The donk-bet is becoming fashionable as well. In fact, the donk bet might become the next cont bet

Originally Posted by gingerwizard

I actually pointed out that it might be a good move and wondered what some of the "old hands" thought about it

You did, and I'm saying thats the right way to look at it.