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Did I make a good play here even though i lost?

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  1. #1

    Default Did I make a good play here even though i lost?

    I am playing a $22 dollar NL tourney. 116 people started there are 24 left, and im about 13 or 14th place out of the 24 left. Now the buy in was only $22 dollars so 11-20 place only get $23 to make a dollar and 1st pays $650 while 2nd pays just over $400 and 3rd about $200 you need top 5 to make atleast 100 bucks.

    Anyway here is the hand i lost:
    1st-4th position fold then person next to me bets $15k they raised $12k because at this time the antes were $500 with small blind being $1500 and bb being $3000. Anyway i have AK off. Also the person that bet before me took a while to raise that amount giving me the impression they are not totaly confident with their hand, this is online too so people with good hands alot of time will bet quick. Anyway i have seen the player raise like these before with pp. but they took more than usual to do it this time so i figured lower pp or they had AK or AQ . So what i do with my AK off is i reraise to go all in knowing they will call so i get the hands heads up. I have 39k in chips she had 35k including the raise she made to me so i was going for a double up. I figured more than likely no one else would call either i go all in besides that player that raises. So i was right everyone else does fold, and i was right the player calls me and i was right they have pp. They had pocket pair jacks and my first guess when i reraised to go all in preflop i put them on 5 hands pp 9s 10s jacks or AK or AQ and if i was lucky they had lower pp. So turns out my guess was right.
    Now my question is would you guys of played it like this in such a low buy in tourney with so little people left with AK off? the person took so long i could not put them on aces or kings and unlikely queens too ,so i was right they had jacks. And if im not right AK off vs JJ i am about 48 percent to win the hand preflop right? so i am a dog but its near coinflip, and i was looking to double up if i had won the hand i knew id be 3rd place in the tourney and also id knock this person out. ANyway instead they knock me out but would you guys do this too?

    I didnt want to just call AK because she raised 12k to make it 15k, so i knew if i just called i be betting 15k and i had 39k i chips so its nearly half my chips, and with that agressive raise before me i knew if the flop came chit they could always try to bluff the pot if she had like AQ or something even. so i reraised to go all in i was right she had pp lower than queens, so its a good call by me?
    I know im a dog in that situation so id lose more than win buts its 52 percent to 48 percent about so its near coinflip so in a tourney like this with so little people left and the buy in so low would you do the same thing??

    I am sure if i was playing wpt or something for 10k buy in i would be more hesitant to reraise ak but many pros even liek this reraising ak off when you think you opponent has near coinflip pp, so did i make the right call reraising to go all in to double up? I dont think its was a bad play by me i just wonder if you guys think its a good reraise by me to try to double up so late in the tourney? i would do it if it was the beginning of a tounrey but over 2 and half hours into it i couldnt help myself i put the person on pp lower than queens and they did have it being jacks so i am more mad i lost the hand than anything but it was not a bad reraise by me??
  2. #2
    oh the last paragraph is suppose to say I WOULDNT go all in with AK early in a tourney ,but so late its a good play right i put the person on 5 hands and they did have 1 of them the 1 i wanted them to have least pp jacks, but ak vs jj is about 48 percent so i did a good reraise to put them all in to try to steal the pot?
    i really couldnt just call in that situation eithe reraise all in or fold so i reraised good call by me? 1 reason i dont just want to call is i have 39k person who raises has 35 k or so so if i just call and board hits junk, they could have pp 5 or something you never know and id rather get pp vs my ak preflop all in that just calling it. i know this person is very tight then very agressive, so if i had just called we would of gone heads up anyway and flop was junk also like 5 6 9 or something bad, but if i had just called i would of had to fold the person would of went all in after the flop and id be done to 24k ,instead i got eliminated the nexxt hand when im all in anyway cause of the blinds but its a decent reraise by me right to try to get the pot heads up which i did and try to win my AK vs their JJ? even though it was offsuit Ak, a double up really helps me in that spot. and my blinds were coming up about 5 hands later and the time above by the time the next levels of blinds got to me it be 4k 2k blinds i believe. So with antes and blinds if i just call AK and fold i have 24k left then i dont get antthing in my blinds considering i dont get a hand to pla the next 4hands id have only like 17 or 15 k left.SO i think it was good to try to win with AK off vs the JJ??? it just didnt work out this time??
  3. #3
    turns out the person i lost to with my AK off vs the JJ that person got 3rd place and won just over $200. Now i still feel pretty good for calling AK off vs JJ what do you guys think? i am also a very tight agressive player as well, so what i was thinking of going all in and did was to try to double up, if i had got a double up i probaly finish in the top 5 of the tourney pending bad beats because i am so tight a player hard to get chips from me.

    But in the end would you reraise AK off to go all in so late in a tourney to try to double up and be in the top 3 in chips, so you can just relax for a while and wait for another monster? Also if i thought the person had bigger pp queens kings or aces i would of folded, it was just too obvious they didnt have any of them because they were taking a while to raise like what should I do? SO when she took so long i really knew she probaly didnt have pp a k or q so my AK vs JJ is a pretty decent reraise to try to get the double up?? after all i thought she had lower pp 9s 10s or jacks more than likely or even ak because no one bet before her so i would split the pot then.

    SO if you guys are playing in a tourney like this late would you fold Ak to a 12k raise with the amount of chips i had and she had, or would you reraise like i did to get a heads up, or just call to see a flop?

    I think my all in reraise was a good stradegy since the hand was near coinflip my AK vs her JJ? and like i said i couldnt put the person on aces kings or queens took a while to raise and she also had qq about 4 hands previous and bet quickly on it raising about the same, so when she took longer and raised about the same i knew it was lower pp than queens or even AK where it would be a tie or if she had AQ or AJ and was trying to steal blinds id have her dead pretty much. So what do you guys think of my reraise? ALso after me there was only 2 people to act then the blinds to act, so i figure no one else would call my all in except the first raiser with JJ and i was right everyone else folded. Only other hands i could worry about by a 3rd person calling is QQ KK OR AA, so did i make a deent play?
  4. #4
    Your post is oddly worded, at one point you state, that you assumed lower PP or AK/AQ, later you state you were confident of it being a lower PP. Either way, it doesn't make a difference, just thought I'd point that out.

    In that stage of a tourney I am playing flops, looking to get my money in when I have a big edge, I try to avoid coinflips when possible. You are correct in that calling is not an option, it is either All-in or fold. It's a marginal call, with marginal odds. I don't think you made any mistakes here, just caught tails when you called heads.
  5. #5
    sorry i probaly made the post too long.
    Well i did put the person on lower pp because they took a while to call i eliminated they had aces kings or queens. I figured they had 1 of 5 hands more than likely pp 9s 10s Js or AK or AQ, and longball possibly they had lower pockets i was guessing. turns out she did have pocket jacks.
    Also AK was about the best hand i saw in an hour, and i was getting no good pp this whole tourney my best pp i ever had was pocket 9s, anyway that doesnt matter. But i thought this was a good spot to get my money all in, no way its a good play to call if i had called id be giving in 15k out of my 39k or so to see a flop. ALso blinds were coming to me soon and if i had not got another good hand better than AK in about 4 hands blinds would eat another 8k from me to leave me with like 17k after. thats why i decided to move in with my AK off, anyone else like this play? it is near coin flip and the average stack for the tourney it listed was 47k. my stack was 39k so i was just under average i wanted to make a move to double up, and i was right the person had lower pp like i thought but still pretty big jacks, but i knew there was that chance its near coinflip, and like i say i put them probaly on those 5 hands i listed above. Also after seeing the person have pp jacks, i dont think it was a bad reraise all in by me? Because pp jacks is about 52 percent favorite over AK right?

    damn thing happen to me later i decided to play a single table satelite i go all in with pp Jacks someone calls with AQ and they hit Q. so when i go against it i lose and when i have pp jacks i lose to AQ go figure. oh well thats how it goes.

    ive been playing just over a year so im just wondering what some others thought of me rerasing AK all in to get the other person to call for heads up showdown, i was near the button too 2 spots from it so i figured more than likely the last 2 people would fold along with the blinds when i did go all in and thats what happened. i got my heads up about 48 percent favorite i guess not too bad a spot to try to double up and get a person out? I know i could of waited some more hands but it was about the best i saw all tourney, and i was going to try to win the tourney not just place, so an aggresive play is a good move with AK when i put the other person on those hands i listed? Any people play here for a long time poker agree with my play or would you guys fold AK in that spot when you know its likely you will get heads up against lower pp than queens. I knew the peson didnt have kings ace or queens so ,i dont think it was too bad a play my read was right on also. just lost the near coin flip i guess?
  6. #6
    michael1123's Avatar
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    First thing, take some ridilin or something, dude. You seem pretty spastic. Good job describing the details, but we got it the first time you said it.

    Its up to you if you want to take the gamble. Its kind of a difference in style type of thing. You did correctly read that you weren't up against AA or KK, which are the ones you really got to avoid. But you sound pretty sure its a pocket pair too, which really isn't the best case scenario, as you'd rather be up against an AQ or any other Ax or Kx hand.

    Personally, if I was sure it was a pocket pair but not sure it wasn't AA or KK, I'd fold. If I was pretty damn sure it was a pocket pair lower than KK, I could go either way, depending on how things were going, the table, etc. Could I find a better spot to try to double up? In general, as an average stack late, I think you should try to avoid coinflips with equal stacks and save them for the smaller stacks (who also could be more desperate to call / shove with dominated hands where you have a big edge).

    One last thing. It sounds like you're a bit confused about hand strengths. You mentioned something about how they could only have a pair like 5s and that'd be even better, and that you don't think they have Qs, but any pocket pair below Ks really isn't that much of a difference strength wise compared to your hand.
  7. #7
    xbones's Avatar
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    In fact I'd rather they had queens, as there is less straight opportunities out there.
    YNWA
  8. #8
    FlyingSaucy's Avatar
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    I think Aceofone answered it pretty well.
    If you are almost certain you are up against a pocket pair, no matter which pocket pair, you've got to fold your AK at this point in the tourney.

    If you are fairly certain the guy does not have a PP and think maybe he is trying to steal, AK is a decent hand to call with, provided your stack covers him.

    The biggest thing to keep in mind is that by shoving all of your chips in when you are on the verge of placing in the money, you are taking a big gamble on your entire buy-in, plus the opportunity cost of what you would be missing if you placed deep in the money.
  9. #9
    I would only make the AI bet if I had a read on the guy and thought he was trying to steal with two face cards or any A. All things being equal(i.e. no read), I think it's a fairly easy fold in that particular situation, being that close to ITM, as hard as it is to lay down AK especially if you're not getting any cards. You're not in desperation mode yet so why risk a likely coin flip(at best)?

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