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dangerous or tricky flops / boards

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  1. #1

    Default dangerous or tricky flops / boards

    ok, done some searches and not really found much on this and it's the thing that causes me a lot of problems.

    say you raise pf with a decent hand (anywhere from mid to late position), you have some actual strength (high pockets, high ace etc) it's not an any two cards button steal attempt. lets say you get rid of several limpers with the raise but there are a couple of callers.

    the flop comes down and either has a pair [7h, 7c, 3s] or is connected [5h, 6s, 7c] / [5h, 7c, 8s] or suited [2h, 8h, Kh]

    my normal play with all but the flush board would be business as usual and put out a continuation bet of 3/4's the pot to pot size (with either overcards, overpair or if i've hit top or mid pair). this will often take it down there and then but it's the times i get called at that point that i start worrying and don't know whether to continue to bet (unimproved) or just to check/fold.

    i just hate the feeling that someone could be putting a move on me and that i'm missing something that would enable me to deal with this better?

    is it simply all about reads at this point or is it just one of those things that sometimes the board hits like that and you just accept it and move on to the next hand?

    {edited for readability}
    "nobody's ugly after 2 am" - bukowski
  2. #2
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    This is my least favourite area of poker. However, if you get called, at least you get to see the turn. If you get raised, they almost certainly have something that's going to beat you.

    You can always rep a flush/straight of yr own on the turn if you're playing someone not know for the size of their balls. You may even hit something tasty. Just be prepared to fold - don't let your desire for results influence your reading of the odds or the player.
  3. #3
    THis just happened to me today there are six limpers.
    I have 66. The flop comes 993. What do I do? Bet into it becuase you probably have the best hand.

    When 3 connected cards come out and you hold an overpair, what do you do? You bet it, becuase you probably have the best hand. Go and find the odds of someone hitting two pair, go and find the odds of someone flopping a straight. You make the bet becuase odds are, no one has it and is just as afraid of it as you are.

    When you get called yes you slow down. If you really think that the person doesnt have it, then you check call it down. You fold it if u have that gut feeling like ur beat.

    The lesson is, you bet it when odds are u have the best hand. Once you get called on it, things change, you have more information. You use htat information to gauge whether or not you still have the best hand. Not sure if htis answered any of ur questions its five in the morning and I decided to have ap oker rant.

    If it didnt answer any of ur questions please post again
  4. #4
    Sed's Avatar
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    play your position and reads...

    Assuming a high pair, all of them except the 3-flushed board I continuation bet of 50-75% pot and keep betting until I until I hit resistance (note: calling is not resistance). 2 overcards, late position, I will bet out 50-75% vs a single opp. or 2 opps if I think I can get folds out of them.

    I'll throw out a 1/2 pot bet on the flop in late position on the 3-flushed board or checkraise vs an aggro late position player (if I have the A or K of the suit) Resistance without a chance of catching a high flush I let it go.

    Beyond that it is very read dependent...

    -sed


    No fear, go deep or go home!
  5. #5
    vq - thanks for that, it makes complete sense and i guess the key word here is 'fear' - i'm getting past the initial 'betting with nothing after raising pf' fear and that does often take the pot. it's getting called then when i have nothing and especially if the boards are the sort i've mentioned above - then i feel like i'm wandering around in the dark a bit if you know what i mean?

    on that point, sed - you say calling is not resistance - that's interesting - i'm probably more on the defensive in most cases if someone calls than if they (re-)raise me... perhaps it's the experience (or lack of it so far) and the players at $25NL. i guess i feel like i know where i am more with a raise/reraise - they either have something or they're trying to steal is what i tend to see that as but a call doesn't help me so much. are they drawing, trapping, sitting on a moderate hand hoping i have nothing / less than they do...

    does the level of the game stake matter as much as i think it does? ie: are the plays i'm seeing at $25NL similar to those in higher stakes? just trying to work out if i'm giving people too much credit and out-thinking myself sometimes?

    thanks again for the replies - helping to broaden my view on this.
    "nobody's ugly after 2 am" - bukowski
  6. #6
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    In my experience, 90% of $25NL or equivalent players will only re-raise when they have the nuts or near enough. The other 10% will try and bully you, as they should, and use the re-raise for this.

    The mentality as I see it of the majority of inexperienced players is that calling gives them the opportunity to stay in the hand with the minimum outlay, whereas raising means they have to take responsibility for the table, and many of them will pick calling as it's the easier/more passive option. Why else would you get 5 or 6 limpers on most hands?

    So, unless you're up against people who have demonstrated that they like to screw with you by raising and re-raising more than the table average, you can be fairly sure that a re-raise is genuine. Where this slightly falls down is the all-in - amateurs see it as a blunt tool that will make anyone without trip aces/an ace high flush fold. But I'm sure that's obvious.
  7. #7
    Sed's Avatar
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    A call does make me think based on the player... but I will hardly ever check it through in late position if he only called me on the flop, unless I improved to the nuts and wanted to suck him in. Here I am talking about an overpair, if I have overcards my flop bet gets called and the turn doesn't help... I am thinking of letting it go.

    - sed


    No fear, go deep or go home!

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