Could I have extracted the whole stack???

Hi,

Any advice on playing this hand better. Unlike Paradise this site is TOUGH and TIGHT. No chaser, checker, callers here. Its can regularly get folded to BB with a min raise and sometimes without a raise.

Got no real reads on my opp as I sat down only about 5 hands earlier.

I think my main issues are:
1) should I have raised PF?
2)should I have flat called the turn?
3) was the river bet too big??

Cheers

Full Tilt Poker - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em

Seat 1: Far ($17.70)
Seat 2: Kas ($8.60)
Seat 3: SFS ($4.90)
Seat 4: SC ($3.40)
Seat 5: k582 ($5.35)
Seat 6: mate ($5.55)
Seat 7: Hero ($8.20)
Seat 8: Mac ($2.40)
Seat 9: Emi ($12.95)
Emi posts the small blind of $0.05
Far posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #8
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Qs As]
Kas folds
SFS raises to $0.20
SC calls $0.20
k582 calls $0.20
mate folds
Hero calls $0.20
Mac folds
Emi folds
Far calls $0.10
*** FLOP *** [Jh Qh Qd]
Far checks
SFS bets $1
SC folds
k582 folds
Hero calls $1
Far folds
*** TURN *** [Jh Qh Qd] [3c]
SFS bets $1
Hero raises to $2
SFS calls $1
*** RIVER *** [Jh Qh Qd 3c] [Ks]
SFS checks
Hero bets $1.70
SFS folds
Uncalled bet of $1.70 returned to Big Dazz
Hero mucks
Hero wins the pot ($6.70)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $7.05 | Rake $0.35
Board: [Jh Qh Qd 3c Ks]
Seat 1: Far (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 2: Kas didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: SFS folded on the River
Seat 4: SC folded on the Flop
Seat 5: k582 folded on the Flop
Seat 6: mate didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: Hero collected ($6.70), mucked
Seat 8: Mac (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: Emi (small blind) folded before the Flop

raise pre flop

id put him on a pocker pair or AJ, and maybe AK or AA with your description of the table, and by that and the way he played, you couldnt have gotten a stack.

anyway i would also reraise preflop - get rid of suited connectors and stuff like KT, as well as your in position, and YOU will be in the spot to make a c-bet. and then when you hit a great flop like that, you'll win a larger pot. as played, i would either raise the flop and bet the turn...or a little riskier but maybe call/call then bet big on the river like a missed draw, if he calls that. i think your line looks more like trip Qs then those two.

Good lord did you just call a preflop minraise there with AQs instead of putting some money in the pot?

Yeh - OK.

The reason I flat called was because they were suited. Coorect me if im wrong but at the lower stakes i want more players in the hand with AQs (increased value for flush draws). If i miss the flush then i still have the AQ to play with.

I could be accused of being greedy by deliberatley trying to keep players in the hand PF to increase value (on a tight table remember) but i feel that in low stakes this is one way to increase EV.

I reckon a raise would see em all off - money in the pot but no callers - alright for big stakes - crap for small stakes. From what i can make out on this site i should play the game according to the stakes - low stakes is more percentage driven and therefore a bit more of a gamble..

Right or wrong??


Cheers

Originally Posted by Big Dazz

Coorect me if im wrong but at the lower stakes i want more players in the hand with AQs (increased value for flush draws). If i miss the flush then i still have the AQ to play with.

Ok, I'm also fairly new to the game (disclaimer) but I'll give it a shot. others should chime in here to back this up or not...

If you are playing a hand to pair it (or because it's a high PP), you want less people in the pot - a pair goes down in value significantally the more that are in a pot. And by being the aggressor, you have another way to win - by getting 1-2 others to fold a missed low PP or over cards to your c-bet.

If you want to purposefully play a hand multiway, and yet are willing to bet it hard if you hit a pair, you will run into whacky hands that will either win you small pots or lose large ones.

As for what I would do to beat a tight table (which seems odd at 10nl), I start raising suited connectors, pocket pairs, more high cards, etc when I'm in position. If they finally wake up, then I'll switch and wait for some cards.

Originally Posted by Big Dazz

I reckon a raise would see em all off - money in the pot but no callers

If you're talking about a flop raise, yea it could send em off but in that case you werent going to win much anyway. You'll win a larger pot more often with a pre flop reraise, then flop raise/bet/bet or call/call/big raise then playing passively on EVERY street. Maybe they have an OESD/AK/AA (or someone with "hes bluffing syndrome")...in general, aggression wins more than being passive and slow playing trying to induce a bluff.

Raise the flop.. in some cases I wouldn't.. but I would definitely raise more on the turn.

Originally Posted by Big Dazz

The reason I flat called was because they were suited. Coorect me if im wrong but at the lower stakes i want more players in the hand with AQs (increased value for flush draws). If i miss the flush then i still have the AQ to play with.

Ah so that is your reasoning. Well, I'll give you mine to compare. The hands you get with face cards are what I call "power hands". You play them for TP-value and raise preflop to weed out all the drawers and crap hands that might otherwise hit a lucky flop (or atleast you make them pay to do so). If such a powerhand is suited, as in your case, this adds "implied odds"-value. If you ever hit a flush with them, people will be hard-pressed to spot it since you raised. It's a little "extra" that can potentially have a huge pay-off. I'd want a lot of people in the pot with say A3s, because I can't play that hand for TP-value. (actually, I raise Axs too about half the time, but that's just my Lagg 6max style; not in general)

So I'd definately reraise it here with AQs, and getting 1-2 people in the pot with you is perfectly fine. I really doubt everyone is gonna fold.. the minraiser should call atleast. And in general it would suck for me to play AQs in a big pot.. I can't play it for TP-value and I can't c-bet etc. Being afraid to raise b/c everyone might fold imo is a leak. It's better that they fold rather than tag along and get lucky.

Oh yeah, and as played.. by the turn the pot is $3.05. He bets $1. That makes the pot $4.05. It's really silly to minraise that. Make it $5 to go.. or $4 if you are afraid of a fold. Now all you accomplish is announcing that you have a good hand and you're not making him pay. So either I'd call to slowplay a bit more and hammer it on the river, or I'd raise a proper amount on the turn. (But here I would call on the turn, since my hand feels pretty safe and I have position, and because he might feel forced to not wuss out on the river and put in another bet - if you're lucky he might even try to bluff you off the pot!-, which I will then heavily raise)

in general, aggression wins more than being passive and slow playing trying to induce a bluff.

Being afraid to raise b/c everyone might fold imo is a leak. It's better that they fold rather than tag along and get lucky.

Ok. I think im having a problem with the transition from limit to no limit. Ill try and plug the leak. Part tof the problem though was that the table was so tight. I usually play at Paradise which is consistently very loose. This was the first time i had played on such a tight table and to be honest didnt have a clue. All i worried about was players folding to my decent hands that i had been waiting all night to get (from the 19 hand PF starting guide). Ide not really thought about how to play a consistently tight table where players are regularly folding to my standard PF raises.

Cheers

Originally Posted by Big Dazz

All i worried about was players folding to my decent hands that i had been waiting all night to get

This is a normal fear, and something you have to get over really. I don't know what to say though about them folding whenever you get a playable hand finally.. if you play tight this might happen a lot yes (on certain tables). So you'll just have to wait for a big hand when someone else also happens to have a hand they like. Personally I circumvent this by playing Lagg, but you really need to adapt to the players and the table, use position and know what to do postflop or you'll be burning yourself hard if you Lagg. If you are gonna play tight, maybe add some more tables to compensate the boredom from all your folding and your opponents folding to your raises?

Yea, don't worry about not getting paid off...it will come. When you are consistently aggressive eventually someone calls you down "to see your cards" or because they finally got a hand too. Butif you find you're at an uber tight table, I don't know any other way to beat it then playing LAg, at least until they play back.

Another, probably better option since you're just beginning to learn the TAg style, is to leave that table, and find a looser and more passive one.

If you raise it up pf and get the pot heads up and miss completely your AQ high might still be good! That way if he misses completely you can make a c-bet and take the pot down easily. If you let 6 people in the pot you have to play hit to win and even if you hit your ace a guy w/ A9 could hit 2-pair against you etc. Much lower risk to limit the field and get that min-raiser heads up. Also, raising would create a much bigger pot and players tend to get attached to a pot once it gets big. This would give you much more action once you do hit a monster flop.