Quote Originally Posted by pgil
this obviously must be accompanied by the ability to lay down TP 3 kicker to too much strength
Geez ... how much is too much strength for this hand? Say you get a limp with 4 others -- 5BB pot.

e.g. Flop 852? You're going to bet this ... okay. Are you going to try to bet off the draw? 4-6BB?
every 8 in the world has you beat here. You're outkicking 82 (congrats on that) but he's hit two-pair. You're folding to any raise, and any flat calls should make you nervous as hell too. So whassup?

You're right that this shouldn't be a discussion of the virtues of 83o (there aren't any ... you do not under any circumstances VP any $ in the P with those cards*), so I'll generalize:

You need a trap hand in the SB. Being first-t0-act has a nice advantage when you do flop a monster. But trap hands are much more fun when someone else has raised PF. Crummy hands in the SB have 3 black marks:
-they're crummy
-you're first to act
-everything but the mortal nuts on the flop is vulnerable with so many opponents.

So tempting when the pot lays you ten to one. But if you've got a hand that doesn't flop Very Strong more than 1/10 the time, it's not even worth that.

*for kicks I ran some 83o numbers. Versus AJo, 44, 65s, and Kxs your equity is 12% -- last place, obviusly. If you're fortunate enough to catch the BB with 72o (e.g. instead of Kxs) , your equity skyrockets to ... wait for it ... 14.4%!