check raising

I've run into a little trouble when checkraising a hand. Usually this situation occurs when I limp in ep with a PP and land a set on the flop. I check waiting for an aggressor to bet and triple his bet. 95% of the time he will call. the trouble happens on the next card. I've noticed that I usually check again on the turn. The reason being that I'm trying to make it look like I was bluffing or am now scared and hoping the guy will bet into me again. Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to happen. The guy usually also checks so then when I'm forced to make a bet on river he will usually fold . How would you guys suggest approaching this situation?

Extra info, I play 6max $25NL on party.

If someone check-raises me on the flop, then checks the turn, I will always check it through. The only exception is if I have the nuts.

On a similar note, if they are betting and calling the flop, they must have a hand. So go ahead and bet the turn, they will call unless you bully them out.

I use a checkraise on the flop when I am drawing to a strong hand (flush or high oesd). The point here is to pick up a free river card when they check after you on the turn (if you don't hit). It also disguises the flush-draw and entices them to bluff at it when you check to them again on the turn after hitting. If you want to use it to get more money into the pot that's fine but don't let them draw out on you.

Stop giving away free cards by checking on the turn. Very few people are dumb enough to walk into a check-raise twice with a weaker hand. Bet it out and make them pay to see the next card. If they aren't playing back at your check-raise they likely won't call your river bet unless they make their hand on the river and then you are screwed.

- sed

Originally Posted by bigred

I've run into a little trouble when checkraising a hand. Usually this situation occurs when I limp in ep with a PP and land a set on the flop. I check waiting for an aggressor to bet and triple his bet. 95% of the time he will call. the trouble happens on the next card. I've noticed that I usually check again on the turn. The reason being that I'm trying to make it look like I was bluffing or am now scared and hoping the guy will bet into me again. Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to happen. The guy usually also checks so then when I'm forced to make a bet on river he will usually fold . How would you guys suggest approaching this situation?

Extra info, I play 6max $25NL on party.

Check-raising is silly for 6max.

Bet and worse hands will call. No one will put you on a set.

-'rilla

True enough. And if you do check-raise, don't bother checking the turn. They're not reading it the way you intend; they're thinking "well I'm not walking into THAT trap twice."

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Originally Posted by bigred

I've run into a little trouble when checkraising a hand. Usually this situation occurs when I limp in ep with a PP and land a set on the flop. I check waiting for an aggressor to bet and triple his bet. 95% of the time he will call. the trouble happens on the next card. I've noticed that I usually check again on the turn. The reason being that I'm trying to make it look like I was bluffing or am now scared and hoping the guy will bet into me again. Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to happen. The guy usually also checks so then when I'm forced to make a bet on river he will usually fold . How would you guys suggest approaching this situation?

Extra info, I play 6max $25NL on party.

Check-raising is silly for 6max.

Bet and worse hands will call. No one will put you on a set.

-'rilla

I have to agree with Gorilla on this one. I play 6 MAX exclusively when it comes to ring games and the only time I will check raise is if I am in early position and there are 3-4 players still to act after I hit my set, str8, etc... on the flop. With that many people left to act there is a good chance that someone will bet and hopefully you will get a couple callers so then you can hit them with a raise once it gets back around to you. Other than that if you are heads up or against only 2 opponents just bet it out. There is a good chance someone will call as long as you don't overbet your hand. Remember when you flop a monster you WANT callers, of course at the right price you don't want them seeing cards too cheaply, but don't get too happy and overbet your hand and bet $20 into a $3 pot or something ridiculous, which I see many players do. Then they show their hand after everyone folds further showing how badly they played the hand, lol.

You guys are discounting the psychological value of a check raise. If you are at the table with the same opponents for a while, you have to check raise to keep them honest. Otherwise, every time you check in early position you are opening the door for them to steal on the bluff. You have to teach the other folks that a check from you does not always mean that you missed. You'll buy a few free turn cards in the long run.

Check raise is ideal at 6 max where opponents routinely overplay TPGK or 2 pair.

Never check raise, then check the turn, doesn't do anything for you but give opponent a free river.

I don't think you should discount the utility of CR'ing. It has its place, sometimes. It's one of the many tools you have at your disposal in poker, IMHO why ignore it.

For example, (anyone care to add to the list?)

It can sometimes be used to isolate/eliminate players (if they'll fold ) which will of course often protect your hand from being outdrawn.

It can also have information gathering value.
e.g. Allows you to see who thinks they have the best hand in certain situations.
e.g. Can be used on the flop when you want to know the possible hands your opponent might have relative to the flop knowing how your hand connected.

CR'ing can also be used against maniacs/bluffers to trap them bluffing.

CR'ing is probably more useful in limit but I can see some use for it in NL when you want to eliminate players with speculative hands pre-flop who tried to limp in to see the flop.

It can also be misused/abused and doesn't come w/o risks. Including of course, getting checked through as the most obvious one.

Originally Posted by RiverMonkey

I don't think you should discount the utility of CR'ing. It has its place, sometimes. It's one of the many tools you have at your disposal in poker, IMHO why ignore it.

For example, (anyone care to add to the list?)

It can sometimes be used to isolate/eliminate players (if they'll fold ) which will of course often protect your hand from being outdrawn.

It can also have information gathering value.
e.g. Allows you to see who thinks they have the best hand in certain situations.
e.g. Can be used on the flop when you want to know the possible hands your opponent might have relative to the flop knowing how your hand connected.

CR'ing can also be used against maniacs/bluffers to trap them bluffing.

CR'ing is probably more useful in limit but I can see some use for it in NL when you want to eliminate players with speculative hands pre-flop who tried to limp in to see the flop.

It can also be misused/abused and doesn't come w/o risks. Including of course, getting checked through as the most obvious one.

I'm not discounting it in any way. But for 6max, if you have a hand, you're better off betting your hand to make a bigger pot. Check raising isn't profitable for anything other than a bluff. (Again, for 6max)

-'rilla

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

I'm not discounting it in any way. But for 6max, if you have a hand, you're better off betting your hand to make a bigger pot. Check raising isn't profitable for anything other than a bluff. (Again, for 6max)

Of course, if you're going to check-raise for a bluff, you better at least very occasionally check-raise with a real hand. Because sometimes that move is going to get called and you want to be able to show something down (if you're going to be spending a significant amount of time at the table).

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