cbet stats

need some pointers, was opening to many weak hands, and defending my BB relentlessly which resulted in a 20 buyin loss(lesson). but thats fixed now, i did some reports and fixed my range up.(tried to addin a few "s.c." type hands but ended up playing alot of weak hands poorly) now its time to give a look at my postflop actions, i ran a report on some stats i thought would give good insight to how im playing after the flop. Curious to see what you guys think, good or bad. basically in need of some constructive criticism.
Hands=5955
VPIP=26.3
PFR =19.0
3Bet=9.8
FLOP=
cbet = 72.6
cbet success = 45.6
cbet 3bet pot = 81.8
fold to chk/raise=28.6
TURN=
cbet =65.2
cbet success=32.8
cbet 3bet pot=46.2
fold to chk/raise=57.1
RIVER=
cbet = 66.7
cbet success=50
cbet 3bet pot=100

Bump..nobody?? Really?

- a lot of these stats won't accurately converge in the sample you've provided.
- 6m or FR?
- Either way, you're playing pretty loose for someone who sucks and your VPIP/PFR gap is pretty massive implying you're cold calling and/or limping too much.
- How is your fold to flop c/r 28% when you're playing that loose pre? May be a sample issue or may be a you feeesh issue.

6-max or FR? Either way, I'd stereotype this (that's what you're asking for, right?) just beyond LAG into maniac zone... Looks like you hate getting away from a hand once you've decided to enter. Given how aggressive you're playing post-flop, I'd guess you 3-barrel your bluffs more often than you v-bet your made hands.
I suggest looking back at you HH and finding when your aggression is paying off and when you might have "seen the signs" that it was a bad spot to bluff.

for a beginner player you are playing too loose, as dozer pointed out. especially if this is FR, but i'm assuming it's 6max because 26/19 is loose as hell at microstakes FR. other than that, i'm not getting much out of it. your 3bet is pretty high, which is fine if you know what you're doing. do you know why you are 3betting every time you 3bet? actually now i think about it, if you are posting a stats help thread after 6k hands (no offence intended) then you almost certainly should not be trying to 3bet 10% of starting hands. what stakes do you play?

6max, $4 Nl mostly. havent been using the HUD just playing, then i saw how much my bankroll had fell (have auto-fill so i dont see it everytime) and decided to stop playing and rethink my strategy. i also looked at HH's and i noticed some of

my biggest losing pots were semi-bluffs
Cake Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.04 BB (6 handed) - Cake Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (Button) ($5.48)
SB ($4.60)
BB ($0.94)
UTG ($3.18)
MP ($3.62)
CO ($4.31)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7, A
3 folds, Hero bets $0.12, SB calls $0.10, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.28) K, 6, 3 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.19, SB raises $0.38, Hero raises $5.17 (All-In), SB calls $4.10 (All-In)

Turn: ($9.24) 5 (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($9.24) 3 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $9.24


firing 4 streets..

Cake Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.04 BB (4 handed) - Cake Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($5.04)
Button ($5.08)
Hero (SB) ($7.01)
BB ($4.06)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J, K
1 fold, Button bets $0.14, Hero raises $0.44, 1 fold, Button calls $0.32

Flop: ($0.96) 7, 4, 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.64, Button calls $0.64

Turn: ($2.24) 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.12, Button calls $1.12

River: ($4.48) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $2.86, Button calls $2.86 (All-In), Hero mucks

Total pot: $9.04

bad calls in what should be standard situations

Cake Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.04 BB (2 handed) - Cake Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($7.47)
Hero (SB) ($6.36)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 10, 10
Hero bets $0.12, BB calls $0.08

Flop: ($0.24) 7, 3, 7 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.16, BB raises $0.45, Hero calls $0.29

Turn: ($1.14) J (2 players)
BB bets $6.90 (All-In), Hero calls $5.79 (All-In)

River: ($12.72) K (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $12.72

mix that in with a little of this.

Cake Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.04 BB (6 handed) - Cake Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($3.28)
Hero (BB) ($16.20)
UTG ($5.95)
MP ($3.86)
CO ($4.11)
Button ($1.48)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J, J
UTG bets $5.95 (All-In), 4 folds, Hero calls $5.91

Flop: ($11.92) Q, 2, 7 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: ($11.92) 6 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($11.92) K (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $11.92

and this.

Cake Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.04 BB (5 handed) - Cake Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($4.17)
Hero (BB) ($7.64)
UTG ($2.54)
MP ($3.27)
Button ($4.40)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6, 3
3 folds, SB bets $0.10, Hero calls $0.08

Flop: ($0.24) 5, 6, 5 (2 players)
SB bets $4.05 (All-In), Hero calls $4.05

Turn: ($8.34) J (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($8.34) 9 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $8.34

i played on Fulltilt and was a winning player over 100k hands @50NL. then black friday scare came and i jumped ship soon after i crossed the 100k mark and havent really been playing that much. (work,family,etc). started playing again recently and i could see my game was off big time but i felt like if i didnt play at least 5k hands then my stats were pretty meaningless. which brings me to this point. havent played since i first posted this thread and dont plan on it until i get my leaks addressed. i had a 50 buyin BR with intentions of grinding it out conservative style. im down to 30 and dont want to lose it.

yeah these hands are just brutal.

h1 call flop, h2 give up after flop, h3 fold turn, fold, fold, fold, fold more

Originally Posted by acg123

havent played since i first posted this thread and dont plan on it until i get my leaks addressed. i had a 50 buyin BR with intentions of grinding it out conservative style. im down to 30 and dont want to lose it.

That might be a little extreme. Only 5k hands... You could just be on a downswing. The poker gods like to play jokes like this. Like when the first time I got dealt KK in a casino, someone across the table had AA. Nice one, poker gods! You got me!

For a leak: Remember that if you have reason to think a bluff might not work more than 50% of the time, it's best to avoid the bluff.

Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

That might be a little extreme. Only 5k hands... You could just be on a downswing. The poker gods like to play jokes like this. Like when the first time I got dealt KK in a casino, someone across the table had AA. Nice one, poker gods! You got me!

For a leak: Remember that if you have reason to think a bluff might not work more than 50% of the time, it's best to avoid the bluff.

thanks for the tip. ill remember that, i need to work on picking better spots mostly, and folding more. ill also be using my hud, taking more notes and playing less tables for a while.
also my position stats

SB VP=32.3 PFR=19.7 3B=7.7 F23B=38.1 AGG=4.3
BB VP=24.6 PFR= 3.7 3B=13 F23B=25 AGG= 2.9
UTG VP=14.7 PFR=14.5 3B= 0 F23B=46.7 AGG= 2.3
MP VP=19.8 PFR= 18 3B=8.3 F23B=26.7 AGG= 3
CO VP=24.1 PFR=19.2 3B=5.9 F23B=42.9 AGG= 2.7
BTN VP=32.5 PFR=25.6 3B=9.2 F23B=40 AGG=2.1

Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

For a leak: Remember that if you have reason to think a bluff might not work more than 50% of the time, it's best to avoid the bluff.

this is fundamentally incorrect. different (pure bluff) bet sizes require different fold frequencies to have a positive expectation. if you make a potsized bet as a pure bluff then, yeah, you do need your opponent to fold 50% of the time. however, intuitively, if we bet 1/100000th of the pot as a pure bluff, then we don't need it to work near as often. because we are risking far less on our bluff.

Originally Posted by acg123

SB VP=32.3 PFR=19.7 3B=7.7 F23B=38.1 AGG=4.3
BB VP=24.6 PFR= 3.7 3B=13 F23B=25 AGG= 2.9
UTG VP=14.7 PFR=14.5 3B= 0 F23B=46.7 AGG= 2.3
MP VP=19.8 PFR= 18 3B=8.3 F23B=26.7 AGG= 3
CO VP=24.1 PFR=19.2 3B=5.9 F23B=42.9 AGG= 2.7
BTN VP=32.5 PFR=25.6 3B=9.2 F23B=40 AGG=2.1

Wow, 32/20 from SB is kamikaze style. Fold almost everything from SB. This game is about position and you're playing OOP like Tony G. Try to get that down to 11/9 from SB. Use Pokerstove to find the 11% that you play best and fold everything else. Even on limped pots. Other's may disagree with me on this, but I say: don't fall into the trap of calling that 1/2 bet to play a bad hand in bad position against multiple opponents... even at 11:1 immediate odds.

In the BB I'd say pretty much the same. You get to see a lot of flops w/o VPIP on weak tables (which is where you want to be). Up your standards on the flop to 2 pr and play fit or fold. Target VPIP between SB and UTG

UTG looks good at 15/15, but playing that tight, you should be folding to 3-bets even less. Playing OOP is bad, that's why we start with the best pockets when we do it. See that flop unless your implied odds are less than 8:1.

MP - BTN looks good to me. I wonder why F23B is so low from the MP. AGG is higher than BTN.... also seems odd. It could very well be unconverged data.

Wow those hands are horrible.

A7s... just call the raise. This shove is stupid, if villain has a flush draw you allow him to fold instead of make his hand, if he has a set you're spewing your stack, and on the few occasions he has a hand he folds, you win peanuts compared to what you risk. Calling is easily +ev, it's a no brainer call. When we miss the turn, we decide how big he bets and either fold or call. It's ok to miss draws and fold the river when you're getting a good price to draw.

KJo... It's hard to comment on this without villain stats. Can he call unsuited Ax hands to the 3bet? We're basically looking for him to fold out his ace high hands that missed the flush, but if he's not an idiot he doesn't have the ace flush draw unless he has like AJ-AQ. Giving up after flop seems reasonable, though I'd consider folding pre unless I can see that villain raises button a lot and folds to enough 3bets.

TT... you should probably fold to flop raise. But the turn is like the easiest fold in the world. When he shoves, he turns his hand face up. If he hasn't got a 7 in his hand, I'm the Pope.

JJ... easy fold pre, unless we have notes on villain that he open shoves light. He probably has AK, but it can be QQ+, especially if he thinks he's getting a loose call from the big blind. And believe me, this is a loose call.

63s... this is fucking awful. Fold or raise pre (raise is ok if villain steals a lot bvb, and folds to 3bets, if not it's a clear fold). Flop is such an easy fold, like ridiculously easy. Yes, sometimes an idiot will do this with AK, but it's rare and even when he does have AK, he has equity against your hand.

Honestly, I'm getting the impression that these villains know you make bad calls for your stack, and they're taking full advantage. I'd be overbet shoving into you for value if I knew you were making these calls.

Please, learn from your mistakes.

Originally Posted by rpm

this is fundamentally incorrect. different (pure bluff) bet sizes require different fold frequencies to have a positive expectation. if you make a potsized bet as a pure bluff then, yeah, you do need your opponent to fold 50% of the time. however, intuitively, if we bet 1/100000th of the pot as a pure bluff, then we don't need it to work near as often. because we are risking far less on our bluff.

Yes, I agree, and thank you for clarifying.
I was making the assumption that our hero bluffs with varying amounts that averaged out to a PSB over many hands (hehe: afterthought, just covering my ass). If our hero bets 2/3 pot for a pure bluff, then it only needs to work 40% of the time. If hero bet 1/3 pot, then only 25%.

Originally Posted by OngBonga

Wow those hands are horrible.

A7s... just call the raise. This shove is stupid, if villain has a flush draw you allow him to fold instead of make his hand, if he has a set you're spewing your stack, and on the few occasions he has a hand he folds, you win peanuts compared to what you risk. Calling is easily +ev, it's a no brainer call. When we miss the turn, we decide how big he bets and either fold or call. It's ok to miss draws and fold the river when you're getting a good price to draw.

KJo... It's hard to comment on this without villain stats. Can he call unsuited Ax hands to the 3bet? We're basically looking for him to fold out his ace high hands that missed the flush, but if he's not an idiot he doesn't have the ace flush draw unless he has like AJ-AQ. Giving up after flop seems reasonable, though I'd consider folding pre unless I can see that villain raises button a lot and folds to enough 3bets.

TT... you should probably fold to flop raise. But the turn is like the easiest fold in the world. When he shoves, he turns his hand face up. If he hasn't got a 7 in his hand, I'm the Pope.

JJ... easy fold pre, unless we have notes on villain that he open shoves light. He probably has AK, but it can be QQ+, especially if he thinks he's getting a loose call from the big blind. And believe me, this is a loose call.

63s... this is fucking awful. Fold or raise pre (raise is ok if villain steals a lot bvb, and folds to 3bets, if not it's a clear fold). Flop is such an easy fold, like ridiculously easy. Yes, sometimes an idiot will do this with AK, but it's rare and even when he does have AK, he has equity against your hand.

Honestly, I'm getting the impression that these villains know you make bad calls for your stack, and they're taking full advantage. I'd be overbet shoving into you for value if I knew you were making these calls.

Please, learn from your mistakes.

^
This

Lol at y'all sayin the JJ hand is bad when he post no info on villain. People dont generally open shove Qq+ calling can't be that bad.

Originally Posted by kickass

Lol at y'all sayin the JJ hand is bad when he post no info on villain. People dont generally open shove Qq+ calling can't be that bad.

Well people don't generally open shove at all, so what do you think a typical open shove range at the lowest stake on a site is from an unknown?

Crappy pps usually Ax usually better Ax there favourite hand 4K is a popular one that fish love, it sounds like swearing. it realy is villain dependant but JJ is beating or flipping vs em I wouldn't be sad about calling. Folding isn't costing us but we could be missing out on a stack of value. I'd need reads to fold not to call, unless it's zoom then I can fold without reads.

did you notice we're 150bb deep in that hand? i'd fold too.

no i did not.
I might fold but I asume as we are both deep we do have some kinda reads as to wtf hes up to. JJ calling an open shove when an open shove is so very rarely QQ+ is not lol bad was all I was saying.

the JJ hand the guy was openshoving all kinds of shit, K6s cracked my rockets, then my AK beat his A7, then he shoved vs. a 3x when i had TT he had like JT or something stupid.he was shoving light but with hands that had equity vs. calling range i guess. same with the 63s hand. it was same villian at different table. he turned over 93o!! no heart. i had him crushed, binked a 9 on river. oh the JJ hand he shoved KQo and hit.

also, does the red "all-in EV" line on our graphs actually mean anything?

it shows us how much we'd have won if every time we were in an all-in situation we won our exact equity share of the pot. or something. if your winnings are above your EV line, you are running above EV in all-in situations. and below obviously implied the opposite. really you're best to just ignore it. it doesn't help you improve at all.

Originally Posted by rpm

it shows us how much we'd have won if every time we were in an all-in situation we won our exact equity share of the pot. or something. if your winnings are above your EV line, you are running above EV in all-in situations. and below obviously implied the opposite. really you're best to just ignore it. it doesn't help you improve at all.

thanks for clarifying and for everyone else that had something to say. im going to post the villians stats,reads,etc. later. i wanted to hear opinions based on how i was playing without stats. which is how i was playing at the time. just based off memory.

Originally Posted by acg123

the JJ hand the guy was openshoving all kinds of shit, K6s cracked my rockets, then my AK beat his A7, then he shoved vs. a 3x when i had TT he had like JT or something stupid.he was shoving light but with hands that had equity vs. calling range i guess. same with the 63s hand. it was same villian at different table. he turned over 93o!! no heart. i had him crushed, binked a 9 on river. oh the JJ hand he shoved KQo and hit.

also, does the red "all-in EV" line on our graphs actually mean anything?

So, if he open shoves K6s then calling with JJ becomes a no-brainer right, so why are you posting this?

half of this thread belongs in wins & fails