Can you play $100 NL like Gus Hansen and be a success?

After being absolutely killed this month, so far playing 13% of the hands. I m down a grand thru 6000 hands. All my big hands are losers or even except for AA. We are talking KK(loser), AKs(even), AKo(loser), QQ(even), JJ(huge loser), AQs(loser), and AQo(loser).
I cant help but see the people at the table with most of the money are split evenly between very tight (10-15% flops) and Gamblers (45% flops). Can you be successful playing that many hands and getting away from non winners post flop?
Also is changing it up thru the game, play a bunch then tighten up a good idea? I ve become such a stat watcher on PT that 18% feels super Laggy.
I feel like I just started this fricken game, with what has been happening lately. I know confidence has nothing to do with the cards that fall but I feel at the moment like it wont matter I have TPTK someone has two pair. I cant tell you how many times I had AK, raised to $8 or $9 and lost to AJ, AJ8 on flop and I am screwed. Or I raise 4xbb with AA and 22 calls and hits a set.
Can you play bunch of flops see what hits and be good enough to drop strong hands when you are beaten? I am at my wits end. Being very patient with horrible cards (13%), lose when I hit (down $1000). Change games? Played 2 fricken Sng's to avoid tilt, and bubbled both to draw outs.
Any helpful ideas? I did move down to $50nl and just had the same results, I am staying there I build the BR up again. The thing that ticks me off the most is that I am not getting beaten by better players for the most part, I am getting beaten by the cards. I was going to post some more HH's but I have for the past week and everyone has said for the most part I did what I suppose too, but still lost big.
Sorry for the rant? Just at wits end! Its not the money as much as the not winning, not to say of course $1000 is a large amount of money.
Once again srry for the rant. SC

Originally Posted by scgolfer

Can you be successful playing that many hands and getting away from non winners post flop?

In limit, no way. In No Limit, particularly short handed against thinking players with deep money, yes!

At the lower levels NL is a nut peddling game. Make a top pairish hand and watch them call off their stack with all sorts of crap. Push AA/KK pre-flop and not be surpised when TT calls, etc. All of this was going on durring the golden age of Party Poker $25 full before 6 max came around. 6 max still plays like this, but with the blinds comming around twice as often camping premium hands isn't as profitable.

At higher levels with deeper money it's a game of people as much as cards. I see hand histories posted here all the time without reguard to reads or table texture. This works fine for low stakes NL nut peddling or full ring limit games (where 95% of your decisions are straight forward.) When you move up and into short-handed games the people become more important as the amount of piss-poor play decreases. This is even more important in NL vs Limit as well because you have bigger decisions to make with less action to work from.

Another thing to keep in mind is that when you're seeing 30-45% of flops your variance goes through the roof. Short-term you can expect to strike it big or bust or both really fast. Which could explain the short term results you see for players. The long-term outlook is much fuzzier.

Anyway, this is more or less along the lines of what I discovered as I tried to move up as a cash NL player.

I imagine Ttanka, Eric, Xianti, The Natural, etc. might have more to add here as they're still playing these games activly...

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With all due respect Rippy....that advice is great for SnGs (and I should know, I have a strong success history in SnG play using your type of strategy...you'd have been proud of me in the FTR Showdowns!) but ring game play is a somewhat different beast, at least on Party Poker. Aggressive play needs to be toned down vs. the calling stations present at the typical Party Poker ring game. I was getting brutalized for a while playing ring, and then I figured out it was because I was playing LAggy like I would in a tourney setting where people will fold if they have nothing to a big bet. Tight is right vs. loose passive calling stations (and this is what most of them seem to be at Party Poker ring games).

I recall Rippy saying something to the effect of not having much luck in cash ring NL games. Then again, things may have changed or I could be mistaken...

Yeah, the psychology of ring games is different because people can use reloads + rebuys to support a counter-strategy that takes a lot of profit out of being over-aggressive. Also, it takes some time to get used to the effect being the "life of the party" has on how other players play against you.

This is based on my short-handed experience, but... Once I'm established at a table, after a bit of a run of cards the weaker players will start making thinner calls and playing back at me, ...or at least I think they are. Either way, it changes the table dynamics.

Originally Posted by scgolfer

After being absolutely killed this month, so far playing 13% of the hands. I m down a grand thru 6000 hands. All my big hands are losers or even except for AA. We are talking KK(loser), AKs(even), AKo(loser), QQ(even), JJ(huge loser), AQs(loser), and AQo(loser).
I cant help but see the people at the table with most of the money are split evenly between very tight (10-15% flops) and Gamblers (45% flops). Can you be successful playing that many hands and getting away from non winners post flop?

I don't play regularly at the limits you do, but I have to wonder if you can be succesful seeing only 13% of flops. It seems like this would drastically decrease your likelihood of getting paid off. If you're losing with KK but your win percentage is still high, that suggests that you are losing big pots and winning small ones.

Some of the biggest pots I've won in $100 max buy-in or $200 max buy-in have been limped small suited connectors and one-gappers that hit a flop big. If you are only playing 13% of flops, I'd guess you're not playing hands like that. It helps your table image to show those hands down every once in a while too.

Since this is in "Hold'em Strategies," we're all assuming you mean ring games here.

My favorite is still 6-max $50 NL at PartyPoker (.50/1.00 blinds). This is such easy, consistent profits for me. I seriously need to start trying the higher stakes.

As for your question, sc, I don't think even Gus Hansen can be consistently profitable playing like Gus Hansen in RING GAMES. His loose, often maniacal, playing style works for him in tournaments (when he gets lucky and hits, he gets paid big because it's very hard to pin him on a hand).. and like you suggest, his post-flop game is very strong and he usually seems to know when to let his rags go or when not to push with them. I have to believe that his ring game strategy is much different. There simply is no need to play like that when the goal is to simply grind it out and make the most money per hour as you can, with the blinds remaining a constant.

I also agree with koolmoe. In my opinion, you're playing TOO tight. On the shorthanded 6-max tables, I average around 30-35% flops seen. That may be a bit loose by some standards even at 6-max (perhaps Fnord and likely Tyson), but I believe I have a good sense of when to drop my hand after the flop. But then again, I'll often use position and table image (I often start a new table tight and solid until I've built up a nice stack) to put a healthy bet out even when I don't hit.

Even on a full table of 9 or 10 players, I still average about 25-30% flops seen. As Rippy said, use position, your table image, and if the field has been cut to just a few opponents, don't be afraid to bet with your missed hand if no one's showing strength post-flop.


As for stat-monitoring.. I'm somewhere in-between Fnord and Rippy. I still haven't tried PokerTracker, but likely will in the future just out of pure curiosity. But I don't feel compelled to use it. The session stats that all poker rooms provide is about as much as I follow while I'm playing.

Its getting quite comical now, exactly 50% with KK 26 times 13 wins, mostly all small wins absolutely ridiculous.
Heres the latest

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ KK SUCKS ASS (10 handed)

CO ($74.45)
Button ($34)
SB ($127.7)
KK SUCKS ASS ($52.6)
UTG ($26.5)
UTG+1 ($48)
UTG+2 ($37.05)
MP1 ($81.3)
MP2 ($249.55)
MP3 ($66.52)

Preflop: KK SUCKS ASS is BB with K, K. SB posts a blind of $0.5.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls $1, SB (poster) raises to $3.5, KK SUCKS ASS raises to $9, Button calls $33 (All-In), SB calls $123.70 (All-In), KK SUCKS ASS calls $42.60 (All-In).

Flop: ($214.30) A, Q, 8 (3 players, 3 all-in)

Turn: ($214.30) Q (3 players, 3 all-in)

River: ($214.30) 8 (3 players, 3 all-in)

Final Pot: $214.30

Results in white below:
SB has Kh Ks (two pair, kings and queens).
KK SUCKS ASS has Kd Kc (two pair, kings and queens).
Button has Ad Jc (two pair, aces and queens).
Outcome: Button wins $102. SB wins $93.20. KK SUCKS ASS wins $17.60.

Rippy, in ring games you8r strategy will probably not work IMO, in most cases someone will call you down with a pair of 4's or something similar, and because they have the security they can rebuy if they want to they will make very loose and stupid calls. Thats why I think your strategy is GREAT for SNG's/MTT's but it doesnt work in ring games.


-anto