Call with QQ and no reads?

This might be a dumb question but I'll ask anyway.

I 3bet as UTG is a big fish who has called numerous 3bets OOP and I'm looking to build the pot with a good hand.

This is villains 3rd hand at the table. He folded his blinds in the previous 2. Mathematically I think it's a call but it is a 4bet to call with no reads so I'm unsure.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($8.78)
Button ($3.85)
SB ($10.40)
BB ($4)
UTG ($14.24)
Hero (MP) ($12.28)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q, Q
UTG bets $0.30, Hero raises to $1, 1 fold, Button raises to $3.85 (All-In), 3 folds, Hero calls $2.85

Flop: ($8.15) A, 8, 5 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: ($8.15) J (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($8.15) 4 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $8.15 | Rake: $0.40

From pokerstove -
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 39.857% 39.64% 00.22% 19005028 104399.00 { QdQh }
Hand 1: 60.143% 59.92% 00.22% 28730686 104399.00 { KK+, AKs, AKo }

Is he really 4betting his 3rd hand at the table with AK though? At these stakes I think it is definitely a genuine possibility. However, take that out AKo and our equity drops to 27% and take out AKs and our equity drops to 18.2%

I believe we have 34.9% equity to call.

Anyone else making this call with no reads into a 4bet pot or should I learn to give up Queens in situations like this?

yea given his stack size id call...if you take out 6 of the AKo combos its still a call.

His range is much wider given his stack size, I'd assume it's is something like {99+,AJ+}.

Definitely call.

don't 3b unless you want to call it off

I think that he's got a MUCH wider range than you give him credit for.
Def call.

Originally Posted by bikes

don't 3b unless you want to call it off

Is this comment in regards to this specific type of situation or in general? For example, what if we had a sample on villain of 300 hands or more and he was a 6/4 nit with 4bet% of less than 1%? Or are queens good to go because of the equity we have in this hand almost regardless of his stats?

Seems I was correct in calling even on the narrow range I put him on so that is good.

He showed KK which sucked but such is life.

Originally Posted by PKKFW

Is this comment in regards to this specific type of situation or in general?

I think bikes is largely referring to the stack size, because you are almost always going to face an all in vs this player either right there preflop or on the flop.

I don't regularly see a lot of nit stats like you described with stack sizes like that either.. maybe i just need to play more hands though.

From the villains perspective, you cant be calling 3 bets with that stack and then folding the flop because you'll go bust faster than.. *insert appropriate analogy. Thus he will only fold or raise, unless he is a complete and utter tool.

call. i wouldn't be surprised if he has all combos of AK, and maybe some more worse.

Originally Posted by HoopyDude

His range is much wider given his stack size, I'd assume it's is something like {99+,AJ+}.

Definitely call.

Originally Posted by bikes

don't 3b unless you want to call it off

+1 to both of these.

Originally Posted by PKKFW

Is this comment in regards to this specific type of situation or in general? For example, what if we had a sample on villain of 300 hands or more and he was a 6/4 nit with 4bet% of less than 1%? Or are queens good to go because of the equity we have in this hand almost regardless of his stats?

Seems I was correct in calling even on the narrow range I put him on so that is good.

He showed KK which sucked but such is life.

If he is a player as you just described then I would never be 3betting QQ. Against such a huge nit it's a pretty big mistake to turn a great hand like QQ into a marginal one and also sacrifices a massive amount of value post flop by playing QQ in a 3bet pot vs a nit. Against a 6/4 type player I'd be much more happy to 3bet a bunch of hands like Jxs, Qxs, Kxs, Axs. These have blockers, and play very well in 3bet pots with position.

It used to be the case that QQ all in preflop for 100bb was absolutely standard but these days you have to pick your spots more and stats certainly come into the equation. However, with these stack sizes I don't think getting QQ in is ever going to be a mistake unless he literally has a 1% 4b over like 800 hands and you know he is an absurdly nitty "pro-shortstacker"

Originally Posted by Donachello

If he is a player as you just described then I would never be 3betting QQ.

Well it was just an example really. Also, I was not 3betting against the person who shoved. I 3bet against a fish and the other guy shoved over the top of me.

But I take your point and agree that 3betting against a total nit like my example is something I would never do.

Originally Posted by Donachello

Against such a huge nit it's a pretty big mistake to turn a great hand like QQ into a marginal one and also sacrifices a massive amount of value post flop by playing QQ in a 3bet pot vs a nit. Against a 6/4 type player I'd be much more happy to 3bet a bunch of hands like Jxs, Qxs, Kxs, Axs. These have blockers, and play very well in 3bet pots with position.

That's interesting and I had not thought of it. I get the bit about losing value post flop playing QQ in a 3bet pot but can you explain a bit more about why Jxs-Axs would be your preferred hands to 3bet with?

Originally Posted by Donachello

It used to be the case that QQ all in preflop for 100bb was absolutely standard but these days you have to pick your spots more and stats certainly come into the equation. However, with these stack sizes I don't think getting QQ in is ever going to be a mistake unless he literally has a 1% 4b over like 800 hands and you know he is an absurdly nitty "pro-shortstacker"

That's pretty much what I thought.

Don's 3betting range against a super-nit is carefully selected for bluff value (blockers) and post-flop play value (in the event villain calls). So long as villain is folding enough, then we don't need a great deal of equity post flop, if indeed we need any at all. But if villain does call, we know we're way behind his range, so we want hands that are capable of making the nuts, while also making him a big hand. If we have JQs and flop the nut straight in a 3bet pot against this nit, he's very likely to have a big piece of this flop too. Primarily, we want him to fold, but we want to increase our ev in the evnt he continues.

My only worry is that we're not going to get a 6/4 to fold to a 3bet very often at all, since he's already only raising very strong hands, so personally I'd be folding most of my hands to a 6/4 raise.

Originally Posted by OngBonga

If we have JQs and flop the nut straight in a 3bet pot against this nit, he's very likely to have a big piece of this flop too. Primarily, we want him to fold, but we want to increase our ev in the evnt he continues.

My only worry is that we're not going to get a 6/4 to fold to a 3bet very often at all, since he's already only raising very strong hands, so personally I'd be folding most of my hands to a 6/4 raise.

Def this. But if we're on a 3bet semibluff then when a 6/4 supernit continues and we miss, or he 4bet/shoves, we can get away from our hand pretty easily. But mostly against a 6/4 I'm only gonna play the top 3 or 4 hands (AA, KK, maybe AK and maybe QQ) to his raise.

Snapples

Originally Posted by Carroters

Snapples

Edit: NVM. I guess you meant snap call.