C/R Bluff , caught on Turn

Despite some of these HH's Im really not a spewmonkey. I'm well aware that bluffing 5NL is like wiping before you poop. Don't make sense. But villain seemed pretty tight botish, and aware. Thought I could fold out some overs w/ a c/r. I was probably going to shut down on the turn. 2barreling 5NL.... ugh... BUT THEN!....

_________5NL________
UTG ($4.98)
UTG+1 ($10.81)
MP1 ($10.02)
MP2 ($11.11)
CO ($10.64)
Button ($2.40)
Hero (SB) ($5.18)
BB ($11.21)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5 5
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $0.20, 3 folds, Button calls $0.20, Hero calls $0.18, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.65) 6 3 3 (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $0.20, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.80, UTG+1 calls $0.60

Turn: ($2.25) 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $1, UTG+1 calls $1

>At this point, I didn't want to push out overs(lol ironic...) I also wanted to give the flush draw ok odds to call assuming villain was infact a half thinking player. So, I bet enough that I could shove the river. Also, if he's got an overpair, what am I worried about? His two outer? I"m going busto all day once that turn hits.

River: ($4.25) A (2 players)
Hero bets $3.18 (All-In), UTG+1 calls $3.18

Total pot: $10.61 | Rake: $0.50

I don't really consider a c-bet a bluff. often enough you have the best hand. This is where you find out

I usually just flat call in this situation. It's probably a bluff, but you have a hand, why would you turn that into a bluff by raising? He's probably drawing to six outs. If he doesn't have anything he'll probably slow down and you see the river cheaply.

There are a lot of good spots to bluff even at 5NL - when you call down with whatever, the turn or river makes a flush, and the villain slows down then usually a PSB will get you the pot. People who make overbets when they have a monster and make minbets if they have nothing... you just raise their minbet with whatever... you just have to know your opponents. This play has made one of my most frequent playernotes "minbets weak hands but calls PS raise" But you only need to find out once.

Originally Posted by wellrounded08

I'm well aware that bluffing 5NL is like wiping before you poop.

... apparently you have never mud wrestled....

Depends why you check-raised. If it's cause you think he will fold a lot, cool. Otherwise, you just bloated the pot, and now, almost any turn bet is going to put you to a commitment decision.

Lucky for you, you boated the turn. Now it's just bet-size to get the money in, and you made that happen.

But I still would prolly call the flop bet with your stack-size unless I had a good read that vil was weak-tight and likely whiffed on the flop.

I wasn't the preflop aggressor, so c-bet was not in the picture really. My bluff was the raise.

I didn't consider that my c/r had me comited on a turn bet, that's my bad. I did think villain would fold.
I feel like a leak of mine is calling w/ a second best hand, when I should just get out. That's why I made it raise or fold. +Some hands better than mine would be PP's and I thought I could maybe fold those out with a c/r.

Originally Posted by wellrounded08

I wasn't the preflop aggressor, so c-bet was not in the picture really. My bluff was the raise.

I didn't consider that my c/r had me comited on a turn bet, that's my bad. I did think villain would fold.
I feel like a leak of mine is calling w/ a second best hand, when I should just get out. That's why I made it raise or fold. +Some hands better than mine would be PP's and I thought I could maybe fold those out with a c/r.

I dont think this last part makes sense to me. 22 and 44 are probably the only PPs he is folding. And... is he likely to have one of those? Would he raise them pre?

Im not saying the c/r wasn´t fine, only that last reason you mentioned doesnt make sense to me.

Stop bluffing with 2 outs. As played, do you really think he's calling a lot more to the $1 bet as opposed to a bigger one? The answer is no. Bet more and make river an easier shove.

Originally Posted by kmind

Stop bluffing with 2 outs. >>>That makes sense. I didn't consider my outs(obviously) Just the bluff itself.

As played, do you really think he's calling a lot more to the $1 bet as opposed to a bigger one? The answer is no. Bet more and make river an easier shove.

What about if he was on the flush draw? Who's calling a PSB here w/ the flush draw? I see no reason to run him off, The only draw that beats me that he's on is a two-outter. Anything else, I WANT him to catch his draw.

And yeah(settecba), there's alot of people raising pre w/ ANY pocket pair even 22. I don't know why, I personally don't get it, but they do. Either way, I DIDN"T think he had those hands, otherwise I wouldn't have tried to bluff out a hand that I beat. That doesn't make sense. If he hadn' t been on the flush draw he wouldve folded alot of PP's to a turn bet.(HE"S A BOT)

i'm probably the least qualified person to give advice at FR, but IMO the hand was played fine.

Originally Posted by kmind

Stop bluffing with 2 outs.

no.

when you bluff, you don't care about outs; when you semibluff you do.

if you mean "stop bluffing too much against loose callers" then yes.

a bruff here is nice given situation

Originally Posted by wellrounded08

HE"S A BOT

what do you mean?

wellrounded - yeah a flush draw as well as other draws will call a bit larger of a raise. Same goes for like overpairs and other made hands and if you bet harder here then the weak made hands have more of a chance to pay you off and the draws will play you off regardless

jack - this advice came from my coach (high stakes) and immediately made my PP more profitable. I definitely recommend my/their thought process on this subject.

By "he's a bot" my point was this: Villain plays his cards only, he takes into consideration x,y, and z variables, and takes action accordingly. x being his cards,y being villains actions(his villain) z being the board. if y and z combine to beat x he folds. (THIS IS NOT A MATH PROBLEM, It's a metephore... or a simili. which ever one doesn' t use like or as)


I've thought alot about this hand, so hear me out anyone who's posted in this thread:
What range is 55 on the flop?
A-Obviously not
B-I think it's still way too weak-calling his bet makes no sense. His range is ripping me a new one here:
33,66, 77+ all the way to AA(I have no reason to believe not) But also, a huge range of hands like AJ+ JTs+ etc. calling to me makes no sense, I'm either calling with a beat hand, or I'm calling and he's got 6 outs on me.+maybe 9 for the flush draw. NO CALL.
C-Perfect
D-nah

So with C I'm what? c/f the flop or b/f or c/r/f I'm bluffing if anything. Like all C hands, If I get called, I may be up shit creek, but I've still got a paddle.(feel free to ignore that metephore/simili again.)


As far as bet sizing goes on the turn+, I can' tfind a problem. I don't think villain is calling a PSB on the turn W/ a flush draw. That makes no sense. He's roughly 20 percent to catch a club. Calling 1 dollar to win 6, sounds good to me(assuming he's sure he'll stack me if he catches.) Now calling 2 dollars to win six? Why, He's in no way commited. I think he's folding it. I could easily be wrong however, maybe he has no understanding of pot odds at all.
Either way, I'm looking to showdown w/ this hand all day, I want him to see the river. why PSB this and potentially fold him out? That's NOT what I want. Not to mention quite simply that even the 1 dollar bet puts me well under a PSB on the river, making the shove much more callable.

I would too bet more on the turn. As said flush draws and overpairs will generally call, and it's better to have 1/2 to 2/3 pot left to shove on the river than an almost full pot sized bet. So the bet sizing on the turn can determine wether or not you're going to make 3$ more by the river.
If you'd made it $1,5 instead of $1 on the turn, you'd be pushing $2,7 into a $5,25 pot on the river instead of $3,2 into $4,25