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Big hand loses lots of money. My fault, or just unlucky?

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  1. #1
    thenonsequitur's Avatar
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    Default Big hand loses lots of money. My fault, or just unlucky?

    I am new to these forums, so let me know if I am posting this question in the wrong forum.

    I was playing in a NL ring game with 5 players. I am the small blind holding 78suited. Blinds are $.25/.50. The guy after the big blind bets $2. Everyone calls.

    [Question 1]: Is it correct to call $1.50 from the small blind with low suited connectors when 3 or 4 other players (depending on big blind's actions) are in the hand?

    Flop comes 7 8 A rainbow. I check, hoping to checkraise my two pair. Everyone else checks.

    Turn comes 7 (suited with the A). So board is now 7 8 A 7. No three-flush. Since I have the full house now, I am confident that if nobody bets, a free card at the river is very unlikely to give anyone a hand better than mine. And also I think someone will put in a bet, since I am playing at a relatively aggressive table.

    [Question 2]: Was checking a good play here, or should I have bet? If so, how much? (There is $10 in the pot now).

    Anyway, after my check, big blind checks, next guy bets $3, next guy raises to $6, next guy folds. I think am most likely up against pair of Aces with high kicker, or possibly even pocket 88. Pocket A7 and A8 seem unlikely to me, given the pre-flop raise and the players I am up against. I am not worried about other suited connectors with a 7 in them, because they will lose to me or tie at best. For some reason, pocket AA doesn't cross my mind. So, I raise to $12.

    [Question 3]: Was this re-raise a good move? Should I have put in more than $12? Slowplayed and raised on the river? Should I have given serious consideration to AA and cautiously called or folded?

    Anyway, big blind folds, the other two call. There is $46 in the pot at this point, and it is just me, the original pre-flop raiser, and the guy that raised on the turn.

    River card is 8. Board is now 7 8 A 7 8. The final 8 is not suited with the onboard A7, so no flush is possible. I now know that it is not possible that either of my opponents has pocket 88. I think I have the best hand with eights full of sevens.

    Since I re-raised the turn, I decide to start off the round betting (thinking that if I try to checkraise again, they will both just check). I go all-in for just over $35 (remember the pot is $46). Both the other players call (first guy has more than enough to call my full bet--second guy is all-in for less than my full bet).

    Showdown. First guy (who put in the original pre-flop raise, and the initial bet on the turn) shows AA. Next guy mucks (I plan on looking at the hand history later to find out what he had). I muck and am now down about $50.

    [Question 4]: Should I have deduced that one of the other two condenders had AA (especially the pre-flop raiser) after they both called my re-raise on the turn, or was all-in the right move on the river? If all-in was not the right move, what is the appropriate move here? Check and fold to any large bet? Bet small? Something else?

    [Question 5]: Any other mistakes in my play this hand? Excluding bad beats, this is the most money I've ever lost in a single hand, so I'd really appreciate any input on whether I played it correctly or not.
  2. #2
    a500lbgorilla's Avatar
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    himself fucker.
    Preflop was great for you becuase you have a good implied odds hand against say AA if you hit the flop hard. You hit the flop hard, its a big field so it's no unlikely that the original better won't bet if he has QQ or KK and the flop comes A high. I wouldn't be too worried about the check.The turn is your gin card becuase now someone would *have* to have rockets to take this pot. It was well played getting as much money as possible in there. On the river, the pot is so huge and you're only beat by so few hands it's nearly an impossible fold especially in a cash game. You can't honestly be thinking about folding your boat into such a big pot. I would like to note how well the other guy played rockets. Had he lead out on the flop he would have only gotten your money but by checking the flop and betting the turn be probably got the other guy with JJ or AQ to overvalue his hand.

    Nothing wrong with your play here.

    -'rilla
    <a href=http://i.imgur.com/kWiMIMW.png target=_blank>http://i.imgur.com/kWiMIMW.png</a>
  3. #3

    Default Re: Big hand loses lots of money. My fault, or just unlucky?

    whew, lots to cover. Let's see:

    [Question 1]: Is it correct to call $1.50 from the small blind with low suited connectors when 3 or 4 other players (depending on big blind's actions) are in the hand?

    - With that many calls, I think it's not a bad call. You'll get mixed responses but I would call this. If you hit a monster hand your returns are generally going to be huge. You wouldn't call this with only a couple people in, but if everyone's trying to give money away, you'd like to be in there to try to take it. Just don't get married to the pot unless you hit something really good.

    Flop comes 7 8 A rainbow. I check, hoping to checkraise my two pair. Everyone else checks.

    - This is not a question, but I wouldn't check that hand. Two pair isn't invulnerable by any stretch. You lucked out (well, sorta) when you made a boat... but frankly this should have been bet right on the flop. And considering ace-boy made trips, he would have raised you here and maybe saved you money, if you read it right and folded. The two main goals of betting here: drive out people with weak hands early so they can't suck out on your 2 pair, and find out where you are relative to other players' strong hands. The guy with trip aces has to at least call a bet here, and he very likely would have raised it, which gives you an idea much earlier in the hand what you're up against.

    Turn comes 7 (suited with the A). So board is now 7 8 A 7. No three-flush. Since I have the full house now, I am confident that if nobody bets, a free card at the river is very unlikely to give anyone a hand better than mine. And also I think someone will put in a bet, since I am playing at a relatively aggressive table.

    [Question 2]: Was checking a good play here, or should I have bet? If so, how much? (There is $10 in the pot now).


    Checking is a fine play here. It's very hard to put anyone on the winning hand with pocket aces. Basically from this point forward you were going to get screwed no matter what happened, but 99 times out of a hundred, you would have had the best hand right here, and it would have held up. Considering the pre-flop raise wasn't all that big, and there were so many callers, it's hard to guess someone was on aces.

    Anyway, after my check, big blind checks, next guy bets $3, next guy raises to $6, next guy folds. I think am most likely up against pair of Aces with high kicker, or possibly even pocket 88. Pocket A7 and A8 seem unlikely to me, given the pre-flop raise and the players I am up against. I am not worried about other suited connectors with a 7 in them, because they will lose to me or tie at best. For some reason, pocket AA doesn't cross my mind. So, I raise to $12.

    [Question 3]: Was this re-raise a good move? Should I have put in more than $12? Slowplayed and raised on the river? Should I have given serious consideration to AA and cautiously called or folded?


    I would absolutely raise here. If you get re-raised or quick-called you have to start worrying about one of the unlikely couple of hands that beat you, and then minimize the damage as much as possible from that point forward... but I don't think you can fold this hand. It would be really hard to put anyone on AA here unless the pre-flop raise has been more significant.

    [Question 4]: Should I have deduced that one of the other two condenders had AA (especially the pre-flop raiser) after they both called my re-raise on the turn, or was all-in the right move on the river? If all-in was not the right move, what is the appropriate move here? Check and fold to any large bet? Bet small? Something else?

    You can't be overly cautious, but I think warning signs were there. I would have bet semi-aggressively. Not sure what the pot was at this point. I think I would have bet around $10 based on the amount of previous bets, and see what happens. If you get just called, good for you; it's likely you hold the winning hand, and even if you don't, the damage was controlled. If you get raised, you have to put serious thought into someone having aces.

    [Question 5]: Any other mistakes in my play this hand? Excluding bad beats, this is the most money I've ever lost in a single hand, so I'd really appreciate any input on whether I played it correctly or not.[/quote]

    All mentioned above I think. I agree with most of your play except the all-in on the river. Then again, it's understandable and I'm sure I've done things like that when I ended up losing to an improbable higher boat.

    By the way, this is remarkably similar to the first hand in Rounders where Mike McD loses his whole bankroll. On some level, there are very few things you can do to not lose a lot of money on a hand like this. Only if you read people VERY well, and play somewhat conservatively (check-raising instead of betting on all streets), can you get away from a hand like this.

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