Beating tight tables

Originally Posted by Fnord

Outplaying the JJ+/AQ+ range (or tighter!) is rather difficult

That's my problem at 400NL full. Most pots consist of a PFR with 1-2 callers, followed by a cbet which gets credit for an overpair or not (calldown by mid PP).

I've started to raise low-mid PP OOP and a wider range when folded too in LP.. Any suggestions to further adjust? General postflop suggestions?

This might give them some trouble if your bankroll is big enough...
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ic.php?t=29937

You have to lower the opponents range and pull a fast one. In other words Lagg it up and Tagg it down. Raise a wide range in LP, and tackle weakness postflop. Don't be afraid to make fairly big bets to take down pots where you sense weakness. Show some ridiculous bluffs. Reraise a raiser in position and rep the flop. If they fold show junk. Create a bad image and then ride on top of the wave with a couple premium hands when they're all lathered up for showdowns.

Fold when they have a hand, raise when they don't.

Originally Posted by Fnord

Raise all the time.

FYP

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

Originally Posted by Fnord

Raise all the time.

FYP

I don't put out that easy. You got to buy me dinner first.

Originally Posted by Fnord

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

Originally Posted by Fnord

Raise all the time.

FYP

I don't put out that easy. You got to buy me dinner first.

I bought him a taco and he melted like butter. Fnord's all bark and no bite.

I've also started opening pots at 400NL with pps 88 and better from late position because of the general postflop tightness. Also, lately I've started opening pots for a standard raise with mid suited connectors from LP if a good player has limped in from EP - MP (indicating sethunting). This way, I am building a pot for a hand that will beat a flopped set. I've also vastly lowered the value I place on high overpairs, because they are dangerous.

I would be careful raising low PPs from early position. If other people are sethunting, then flopping bottom set against a good player showing a ton of agression on an uncorrdinated flop could be a disaster.

CO/HJ when folded too I'm raising any pair, AJo+, A8s+, QJo+, 78s+.

BN I'll add any A, K9o+, 43s+, 87o+.

Your idea about SC's vs. early limpers seems nice too.

I've also vastly lowered the value I place on high overpairs, because they are dangerous.

Yep. I play them fast pf/flop, and try to induce a bluff at the turn (representing missed overcards), and I'm very suspicious about possible sets..

** Game ID 707207358 starting - 2006-03-03 22:15:27
** No More Cry [Hold 'em] (2.00|4.00 No Limit - Cash Game) Real Money

- johnny291281 sitting in seat 1 with $429.70
- dnh83 sitting in seat 2 with $400.60
- Vito__ sitting in seat 3 with $122.00
- JEMMIMA1 sitting in seat 4 with $155.50
- TheGenius1 sitting in seat 5 with $477.11
- spr sitting in seat 6 with $127.40 [Dealer]
- wctc sitting in seat 7 with $423.00
- Mofflowis sitting in seat 8 with $491.30
- Babbel sitting in seat 9 with $407.10
- mooojuice sitting in seat 10 with $400.00 [Sitting out]

wctc posted the small blind - $2.00
Mofflowis posted the big blind - $4.00
** Dealing card to johnny291281: King of Spades, King of Hearts
Babbel called - $4.00
johnny291281 raised - $16.00
dnh83 folded
Vito__ folded
JEMMIMA1 folded
TheGenius1 folded
spr folded
wctc folded
Mofflowis folded
Babbel called - $16.00

** Dealing the flop: 4 of Clubs, 2 of Hearts, 7 of Diamonds
Babbel checked
johnny291281 bet - $28.00
Babbel called - $28.00

** Dealing the turn: 6 of Diamonds
Babbel checked
johnny291281 bet - $50.00
Babbel raised - $150.00
johnny291281 folded
Babbel mucks:
Babbel wins $291.00 from the main pot

End of game 707207358

This hand also shows why limp-calling low PP doesn't work as well as at lower levels.. I think an advantage of raising low PP from EP is that it's possible to stack 2 pair with bottom/middle set, because they put you on an overpair. Cbetting OOP sucks though.

Originally Posted by johnny_fish

BN I'll add any A, K9o+

I think you're trapping yourself here.

Unless you're playing live(and can't easily change tables), wouldn't it be make more sense to just find an easier table?

Originally Posted by Fnord

Originally Posted by johnny_fish

BN I'll add any A, K9o+

I think you're trapping yourself here.

I try not to play big pots with TP of course.. And raising is better than the alternative (folding the probably best hand with position).

Originally Posted by Aces

Unless you're playing live(and can't easily change tables), wouldn't it be make more sense to just find an easier table?

Yes, multitabling 100-200NL is better in terms of hourly rate. But I'm learning faster at 400NL.

the jj+ Aq+ range guys are pretty easy to play against cause you know what they have. You wont get a huge edge like you will on fish, but you just figur eout what they have and then play accordingly. Semibluffing works very well against these guys, and hitting sets works well too cause they often get married to their overpairs and are fed up with my constant semibluffing.

Originally Posted by Bmxicle

the jj+ Aq+ range guys are pretty easy to play against cause you know what they have. You wont get a huge edge like you will on fish, but you just figur eout what they have and then play accordingly. Semibluffing works very well against these guys, and hitting sets works well too cause they often get married to their overpairs and are fed up with my constant semibluffing.

so you try to create your own action? That seems like it could get very expensive. It sounds like it might work well though against a bunch of camping opponents. Can you elaborate more?

It's tough to take people out preflop, but betting out on the flop usually works for me at 100NL. I'm willing to lose 1/2 buyin or so, if it means loosening up the table and getting me some action later.

I meant easier/different tables at the same limits. That could mean playing at different times of the day or different sites. I'm playing 400Euro and 600Euro 8max tables at B2B sites and they aren't overly tight.

I found that betting PP's preflop depends on my opponents prior plays, the players that like to outbet me no matter what I bet so I back off and let him lead. bet call, bet call, then depending on the support I got from the table cards I reraise on turn, then big reraise on river (at this point I may have to go all in to support my bets) and I usually find he has committed to much to the pot so he calls and my trips or boat take a big chip pot. On a table of NORMAL players (depending on my seat) I like to 2x raise on small PP preflop and take my chances then if they dont up my bets oon the flop, I will start betting the post, some will call but most fold, no bets on the turn i bet pot again, field usually gets down to 1 now, (hes waiting for the magic card) no bets on river then I bet pot and he calls or folds but by now I usually have the winning hand and alot of chips!

It's hard to crak the tight players of JJ above, you really have to try and stick it to em. The key is to make them play outside their comfort zone, put them on hard decision, or make sure you show a couple of hands you bluffed the pot on. This should kickstart them in to going on tilt or playing looser poker. When they start to play looser, this is where you can gain the advantage because they won't have had much experience at it, rocks don't know how to roll and have fun. As soon as you get the player outside his comfort zone, you've got'em. Alternatively I agree, you should play at different times or on different poker rooms

Originally Posted by johnny_fish

Originally Posted by Fnord

Originally Posted by johnny_fish

BN I'll add any A, K9o+

I think you're trapping yourself here.

I try not to play big pots with TP of course.. And raising is better than the alternative (folding the probably best hand with position).

That's limit thinking. When the stacks are deeper than 50bb what's the difference between K9o and 73o?

So it's better to just open-fold A9-/KJ- at BN/CO?

there's no reason to be so fixated on aggression that you can't open-limp a decent hand like a medium ace or two broadways from button/CO. With a small starting pot you won't be getting yourself into trouble with medium strength or unmade hands vs. the blinds. You can also exploit the blinds' unwillingness to fold TPNK to medium-sized bets in heads-up/3way unraised pots.