Back Down to 5NL from 10NL-GRAPH and STATS added

I went from $47 to $229 in 7k Hands
Then went from $229 to $83 in 10k hands
Total hands are 57k.
I really have no idea why.
Time to bite the bullet and move back down before all my BR is gone.

Not real happy about it either

I would have thought that $229 is only barely rolled for 10NL, and if you are going backwards from there you should move down well before reaching $83. You are really only rolled for 2NL at that level.

Just my 2c.

I saw a guy named sasquach on FT the other day at 100NL, I hope it wasn't you lol. Isn't $83 too little to even play 5NL following proper bankroll management?

I'd say $83 is ok to play 5nl on until you drop to 30 buyins or so for the level below. Therefore as long as you have the will to go to 2nl when your roll gets to $30 you could stay at 5nl. Also, you shouldn't be buying in 200bb deep.

You have a profit of nearly 100% over 17K hands. You are a winner! Well done. Do not let variance question your abilities- rather see it as an opportunity to get better.

Stepping down limits is the smartest thing you can do in a situation like this, and it definately isn't easy. Good job moving down, you'll thank yourself in the end because you're on route to saving your bankroll. Variance sucks but it's something we all have to deal with whether we like it or not.

GL sir.

you should be playing 0.01/0.02 NL with that bankroll right now

My thought is you may not be following good enough bankroll management guidelines. I strongly recommend 30 buyins for whatever NL you are playing and then dropping when you hit 20 buyins at the level you're at, NOT 30 buyins for the level below. So, to even play $10 NL, you need $300 and from the original post, I infer that you were playing @ $229, if not sooner. Furthermore, you mention playing $5 NL with your current bankroll and I think you should be playing $2 NL and NOT $5 NL until you reach $150 and dropping down to $2 NL if you reach $100. So, it's doubly concerning that I infer by the title of this thread that you have been playing $10 NL the entire time, when you should have dropped to $5 NL when you dropped to $200.

It's hard to say why you jumped up so much and then down so fast, but it's possible you were just getting lucky with the wins and then when things evened out, it may have caught up and not being properly rolled just added more fuel to the fire for a faster fall. OR, maybe you're just unlucky on the downswing, but in any case, having the right bankroll for the right level is crucial to all of our success. No limit has a LOT of swings, both good ones and bad ones, and you have to have the bankroll to sustain them and also prove that you are actually beating the level you're at.

Good luck @ whatever level you play.

I guess I need to clarify something. The numbers above are NOT my bankroll. These are my profits of 5NL and 10NL combined. My current BR is at $180. I was advised at a BR of $220 to take a shot at 10NL.
See http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...nl-t80217.html

I was advised to move back down when the BR hit $150 which I'm very close to. I then I quickly increased to $320 and then the decline started.

There's certainly nothing wrong with nitty BRM, but I think you can be more liberal at the micros. Taking a shot there is fine imo, but I would move down a little sooner.
What were your stats at 10NL, how many tables did you play? Could you post some key hands? No bad beats, no obvioius coolers. Post some hands you won as well.

Since you clarified, I guess you're not as far off the path as I thought, but I still think you should only move up when you hit 30 buyins and move down as soon as you hit 20 buyins for the level you're at. To me, that's not nitty or too conservative and I wouldn't bend the rules because it's micros. If you bend the rules, ALWAYS bend them to be more conservative. It seems like the majority of threads I read where people have to move down, they either didn't follow bankroll management at all OR the rules they followed were too liberal like 15 to 20 buyins for NL. Much less frequent is the player who follows a 30 buyin or more strategy who finds himself having to move down one or more levels. Losing your money or bankroll or moving up too soon is a MUCH bigger problem than possibly having more money than you need for the next level or moving up too late. EVERYONE has a glass ceiling on how far up they can move before there are either no more games or a level they can't beat. Poker is EVERYWHERE 365/24/7, so don't be in too much of a rush

The reason 30 buyins is such a solid # in my opinion is because of how it relates to 5%. If you ever do any statistical analysis or have a thesis to prove, the magic # is usually 5%. You might state a null hypothesis like "There is NO relationship between x and y" and then you do a study or run some tests across a high sample. If you get a positive correlation 95% or more or NOT a correlation 5% or less of the time, then SOMETHING is going on and there is indeed a relationship and you have to reject the null hypothesis. As it relates to poker, 95% is the percent of the time that solid poker will win you money and 5% is the percent of time that variance or the occasional bad play will cost you money in the long run. 5% is 1 out of 20, thus 20 buyins. BUT, we bump that up to 30 to give us some cushion and wiggle room @ about 3.33% OR 50% more buyins compared to 20. Then, when we drop to 20 buyins, we are basically admitting that there is a good chance SOMETHING is going on with our play at the level we're at - bad play, variance, or whatever. Drop down a level, work it out, move back up a level when bankroll results dictate, and try again.

Obviously we all need to do what we feel is best for us and there isn't necessarily a right or wrong answer, but I just think it's better to have a solid plan in place and only error to the side of caution.

You play 6max only, right? Have you posted stats or anything? If you have HEM I could look over a small database or something.

Here are some hands. I believe I edited out whether it was obvious if I won or lost. In general, I would lose to Laggs and win against Taggs. I'll post stats later when I can get to HEM.

Hand 1
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($8.05)
UTG ($3)
MP ($3.60)
Hero (CO) ($10)
Button ($10.50)
SB ($11.65)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A, A
1 fold, MP calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.40, 1 fold, SB calls $0.35, 1 fold, MP calls $0.30

Flop: ($1.30) A, 8, 9 (3 players)
SB checks, MP checks, Hero bets $1.20, 1 fold, MP calls $1.20

Turn: ($3.70) 3 (2 players)
MP bets $2 (All-In), Hero calls $2

River: ($7.70) 8 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $7.70 | Rake: $0.35

Hand 2
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($3.65)
Hero (SB) ($11.35)
BB ($11.80)
UTG ($6.05)
MP ($4.40)
CO ($9.80)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J, J
UTG calls $0.10, 3 folds, Hero raises to $0.40, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.30

Flop: ($0.90) A, 10, 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.80, UTG calls $0.80

Turn: ($2.50) 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks

River: ($2.50) 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.20, UTG calls $1.20

Total pot: $4.90 | Rake: $0.20

Hand 3
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($3.20)
UTG ($3.80)
MP ($13.10)
Hero (CO) ($15.85)
Button ($15.50)
SB ($3.35)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8, K
2 folds, Hero calls $0.10, Button calls $0.10, SB calls $0.05, BB checks

Flop: ($0.40) 3, 7, J (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, Button checks

Turn: ($0.40) 3 (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $0.40, 1 fold, SB calls $0.40, 1 fold

River: ($1.20) Q (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.60, SB calls $0.60

Total pot: $2.40 | Rake: $0.10


Hand 4
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($3.10)
BB ($3.80)
UTG ($13.10)
Hero (MP) ($17.05)
CO ($15.40)
Button ($2.25)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K, K
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.40, CO calls $0.40, Button calls $0.40, SB calls $0.35, 1 fold

Flop: ($1.70) 5, A, Q (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.40

Hand 5
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (4 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($6.10)
Button ($26.90)
SB ($5.90)
Hero (BB) ($11.05)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2, A
UTG calls $0.10, 1 fold, SB calls $0.05, Hero checks

Flop: ($0.30) 2, 5, 2 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.30, UTG calls $0.30, 1 fold

Turn: ($0.90) 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.80, UTG raises to $1.60, Hero calls $0.80

River: ($4.10) 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $4.10 (All-In), Hero calls $4.10

Total pot: $12.30 | Rake: $0.60


Hand 6
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($10)
MP ($11.15)
CO ($15.90)
Button ($18.30)
SB ($10.50)
Hero (BB) ($10)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K, 4
2 folds, CO calls $0.10, 2 folds, Hero checks

Flop: ($0.25) K, 3, K (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks

Turn: ($0.25) 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.30, CO calls $0.30

River: ($0.85) 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.60, CO calls $0.60

Total pot: $2.05 | Rake: $0.10

Hand 7
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($4.15)
MP ($3.05)
CO ($10)
Hero (Button) ($13.45)
SB ($17)
BB ($7.35)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8, 10
UTG calls $0.10, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.10, SB calls $0.05, BB checks

Flop: ($0.40) J, 9, 8 (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets $0.20, UTG calls $0.20, Hero calls $0.20, SB calls $0.20

Turn: ($1.20) 4 (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets $0.20, UTG calls $0.20, Hero calls $0.20, SB calls $0.20

River: ($2) Q (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets $0.90, Hero calls $0.90


Hand 8
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($11.70)
Button ($8.45)
SB ($19.40)
BB ($10)
UTG ($10.45)
Hero (MP) ($10.45)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A, 10
1 fold, Hero calls $0.10, 1 fold, Button calls $0.10, SB calls $0.05, BB checks

Flop: ($0.40) 8, 5, 10 (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets $0.40, Hero calls $0.40, 2 folds

Turn: ($1.20) J (2 players)
BB bets $0.60, Hero calls $0.60

River: ($2.40) 7 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Total pot: $2.40 | Rake: $0.10

Hand 9
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($6.20)
CO ($3.20)
Button ($10)
Hero (SB) ($11.90)
BB ($17.95)
UTG ($5.40)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A, 8
UTG calls $0.10, 3 folds, Hero raises to $0.40, BB calls $0.30, UTG calls $0.30

Flop: ($1.20) 2, 8, 5 (3 players)
Hero bets $1, 1 fold, UTG calls $1

Turn: ($3.20) K (2 players)
Hero bets $2

Originally Posted by kmind

You play 6max only, right? Have you posted stats or anything? If you have HEM I could look over a small database or something.

Yes, this is all 6-max

Hand 1
I assume you won that. If you lost to quads, then that sucks and that's poker. The allin call on the turn is questionable to me as I put villain on a flush draw when he calls your flop bet and then a made flush on the turn. If true, you're drawing to 10 outs to the full house, which is about 20% and the pot odds are 25% - not a huge error, but unless you have a read to the contrary, I probably fold in that situation and you got lucky on the river.

Hand 2
I assume you're beat to an ace. Not a terrible way to play the hand. Cbet to keep the lead and try to get villain out. Slow down on the turn since you're probably beat. Villain shows weakness, so why not put him to the test? If you're going to put him to the test, though, I'd probably make it a little higher - $1.75 or $2.00 river bet. If you're not willing to do that, just check it.

Hand 3
After two folds, I would have raised or folded - probably raised. I don't like a call being the first in the pot. Then you can possibly steal the blinds right there or win it on the flop. Maybe bet a little more on the river. I assume you took that down.

Hand 4
Where's the rest of it? Generally speaking, I don't like big cbets with KK when an Ace spikes - 6 handed might be a situation where you could break that rule, but I would definitely shut down with any resistance after that. My guess for the rest of that hand is that you took the pot on the flop or lost to an ace.

Hand 5
I like a check/bet/call or check/bet/reraise, but a bet/call isn't bad either. On the turn, I get scared you're beat or TIED at best. What's he going to reraise with besides a 2 or a 5? Unless you have good reason to believe he thinks YOU are bluffing, you really have to think about shutting down here. My guess is you lost that pot to something like A5 or 56s or even 5x since he was the SB.

Hand 6
Looks like you played it fine. I read that he's on a flush draw or Kx since he stayed in so long or possibly top pair and won't give you any credit. You bet enough to price him out after the turn if he was on the flush and he went for it and got lucky. So, you're either beat with a weak flush or maybe the better Kx and he wins with a better kicker and slowed down because of the flush, OR maybe he had A9 and you win.

Hand 7
I'm not sure I like sticking around for hands like this after the flop. You're looking for 4 cards to make the straight or 2 cards to get trips, but 2 of those cards put flushes out there and how much action are you really going to get if you hit as it's just one card needed to make the straight and then an obvious paired board? I probably toss this after the flop. The pot didn't get too big, but it's certainly not small either. Maybe you won it, but I wouldn't be surprised if you lost to a flush, too.

Hand 8
I'd consider a raise 6 handed in MP with ATs in general and with that flop, it would set-up nicely for a cbet, too. I like a reraise on the flop. You'll get a better idea of where you stand OR take the pot right there. It may also slow him down and buy you a free card on the turn to get your flush. I like the check/check - either he had a straight and was waiting for you to bet or maybe a busted flush or some kind of pair and you win.

Hand 9
You played it aggressively and took it down. Nice. I'm guessing you probably had a good read to go with it to make those big bets.

Keep in mind those are just quick snapshots of my impressions of those hands with absolutely NO READS and you're shorthanded, which can further complicate it. With READS, decisions can go in completely different directions. But, I hope that helps or at least gives you another perspective.

More info:
I made a table a while ago of this
http://poker-strategy.flopturnriver....ting-Hands.php
and for the most part I use it. I also 3 table.

Results are in White

Originally Posted by Jason

Hand 1
I assume you won that. If you lost to quads, then that sucks and that's poker. The allin call on the turn is questionable to me as I put villain on a flush draw when he calls your flop bet and then a made flush on the turn. If true, you're drawing to 10 outs to the full house, which is about 20% and the pot odds are 25% - not a huge error, but unless you have a read to the contrary, I probably fold in that situation and you got lucky on the river.
Won

Hand 2
I assume you're beat to an ace. Not a terrible way to play the hand. Cbet to keep the lead and try to get villain out. Slow down on the turn since you're probably beat. Villain shows weakness, so why not put him to the test? If you're going to put him to the test, though, I'd probably make it a little higher - $1.75 or $2.00 river bet. If you're not willing to do that, just check it.
Won-villian had a pair of 8's

Hand 3
After two folds, I would have raised or folded - probably raised. I don't like a call being the first in the pot. Then you can possibly steal the blinds right there or win it on the flop. Maybe bet a little more on the river. I assume you took that down.
Lost-Villian had Ac5s

Hand 4
Where's the rest of it? Generally speaking, I don't like big cbets with KK when an Ace spikes - 6 handed might be a situation where you could break that rule, but I would definitely shut down with any resistance after that. My guess for the rest of that hand is that you took the pot on the flop or lost to an ace.
Won-They all folded

Hand 5
I like a check/bet/call or check/bet/reraise, but a bet/call isn't bad either. On the turn, I get scared you're beat or TIED at best. What's he going to reraise with besides a 2 or a 5? Unless you have good reason to believe he thinks YOU are bluffing, you really have to think about shutting down here. My guess is you lost that pot to something like A5 or 56s or even 5x since he was the SB.
Lost-villian had 25

Hand 6
Looks like you played it fine. I read that he's on a flush draw or Kx since he stayed in so long or possibly top pair and won't give you any credit. You bet enough to price him out after the turn if he was on the flush and he went for it and got lucky. So, you're either beat with a weak flush or maybe the better Kx and he wins with a better kicker and slowed down because of the flush, OR maybe he had A9 and you win.
Lost-vilian had flush

Hand 7
I'm not sure I like sticking around for hands like this after the flop. You're looking for 4 cards to make the straight or 2 cards to get trips, but 2 of those cards put flushes out there and how much action are you really going to get if you hit as it's just one card needed to make the straight and then an obvious paired board? I probably toss this after the flop. The pot didn't get too big, but it's certainly not small either. Maybe you won it, but I wouldn't be surprised if you lost to a flush, too.
Lost-villian had flush

Hand 8
I'd consider a raise 6 handed in MP with ATs in general and with that flop, it would set-up nicely for a cbet, too. I like a reraise on the flop. You'll get a better idea of where you stand OR take the pot right there. It may also slow him down and buy you a free card on the turn to get your flush. I like the check/check - either he had a straight and was waiting for you to bet or maybe a busted flush or some kind of pair and you win.
Lost-villian had Jc7c

Hand 9
You played it aggressively and took it down. Nice. I'm guessing you probably had a good read to go with it to make those big bets.

Keep in mind those are just quick snapshots of my impressions of those hands with absolutely NO READS and you're shorthanded, which can further complicate it. With READS, decisions can go in completely different directions. But, I hope that helps or at least gives you another perspective.
Win

hand 1: fine, 10 outs to the nuts and he doesnt always have the flush. If he obviously has the flush I may fold this since he has nothing behind.
hand 2: Flop is fine, dont bet the river, only hands that beat you call, let him bet and call a reasonable bet, that would open up hands that you beat. You could fire the turn, but if he calls shut down.
Hand 3: Don't ever limp first in again. Ever. Raise pre or fold. I raise
Hand 4: Never bet this flop, Think about what hands call and what hands fold. Your multiway in a ballooned pot without a 3bet OOP and have no way of winning a big pot vs hands your ahead of on this flop. Calling one street is fine. ( find gabe's KK on A high flop thread in the S&G forum. This is an AHA moment for many)
Hand 5: Cardinal rule #xxx "do not stack off in unraised pots"
Hand 6: You lost this one. Bet the flop and bet the turn a decent amount, don't overbet. what hands again are calling that bet that you beat?
Hand 7: Raise pre, Don't let people see flops on your button cheap. As played your done on the turn. How far do you think you'll get drawing to a straight on a 3flush board. You have no implied odds made obvious by the fact that you couldn't raise the river when it hit.
Hand 8: NO, NO, NO, no limping first in. Don't play ATs in MP at any stake where people can't fold. As played Raise the flop, we are looking to get this in now. You have TPTK and 14 outs to anything he has except a set.
Hand 9: No. Never play this hand don't even complete.

The sooner you lose the preflop hand chart the better off you will be.

Originally Posted by jyms

The sooner you lose the preflop hand chart the better off you will be.

I rarely look at it now as I remember it. Are you saying forget about using the info from it?

I haven't looked at the chart but preflop depends so much on the table you are at, if it's a static chart you shouldn't be using it.

That sucks about moving down but hey its what you gotta do to keep your bankroll. Hopefully you will catch a good upswing!!!! It really sounds like your just on a downswing. I would only get worried if you get to the point where you have to go down to 2nl. If that happens (which i doubt it will) then i would be asking for help and reading a lot of strategy and maybe rethinking a lot of plays/hands going through hand histories and such (not saying you shouldnt do that now) but really don't worry about it until you lose all your profit and your at 2nl. Good luck to you

I know what it feels like to move back to 5NL after losing a lot of your bankroll. Best advice I can give you is to really look deeply at your hand history and try to identify any major leaks in your game.

Maybe also play at 2NL for while since $83 isn't really enough to play 5NL.

Originally Posted by kmind

I haven't looked at the chart but preflop depends so much on the table you are at, if it's a static chart you shouldn't be using it.

this.
Time to start thinking about your opponents hands and not yours. AJs is a great hand preflop, or its a shit hand preflop, any idea when?

Originally Posted by jyms

Originally Posted by kmind

I haven't looked at the chart but preflop depends so much on the table you are at, if it's a static chart you shouldn't be using it.

this.
Time to start thinking about your opponents hands and not yours. AJs is a great hand preflop, or its a shit hand preflop, any idea when?

Great- when everyone folds in front of you
Shit- when someone opens in front of you

Not even close. You know there are more than one type of someone right. that is still too much by the chart

Originally Posted by Sasquach991

Originally Posted by jyms

Originally Posted by kmind

I haven't looked at the chart but preflop depends so much on the table you are at, if it's a static chart you shouldn't be using it.

this.
Time to start thinking about your opponents hands and not yours. AJs is a great hand preflop, or its a shit hand preflop, any idea when?

Great- when everyone folds in front of you
Shit- when someone opens in front of you

You're still thinking too simplistically about it. That's ok advice for a beginner, but you need to start thinking deeper about the game if you want to improve.

Hint: Consider how AJs fares against your opponent's preflop opening range.

Also consider how well it plays multi-way etc, your absolute & relative position, # of players left to act, stack sizes, any other info you can come up with etc...

Originally Posted by jyms

Not even close. You know there are more than one type of someone right. that is still too much by the chart

So the answer is "It depends"?

In position, OOP, type of player, ?

I guess my answer obviously is I don't know

AJs is awesome PF when limped to you in position, raising against a maniac, hijacking, among other things.

Not so great UTG.

Sucks in position facing UTG 4x open from a nit, and sucks when raised, among other things.

Originally Posted by Sasquach991

I guess my answer obviously is I don't know

As long as you have a chart memorized you won't

Originally Posted by jyms

Originally Posted by Sasquach991

I guess my answer obviously is I don't know

As long as you have a chart memorized you won't

So I forget the memorized chart and start playing in the manner of which you want me to figure out by asking me questions when I ask you a question. Now I'm confused

Originally Posted by Sasquach991

Originally Posted by jyms

Originally Posted by Sasquach991

I guess my answer obviously is I don't know

As long as you have a chart memorized you won't

So I forget the memorized chart and start playing in the manner of which you want me to figure out by asking me questions when I ask you a question. Now I'm confused

I think what Jyms is trying to emphasize is that you need to know why you're making a play. Charts don't help with this. Think about the hands you play in relation to your position and opponent tendencies.

Originally Posted by kb coolman

Originally Posted by Sasquach991

Originally Posted by jyms

Originally Posted by Sasquach991

I guess my answer obviously is I don't know

As long as you have a chart memorized you won't

So I forget the memorized chart and start playing in the manner of which you want me to figure out by asking me questions when I ask you a question. Now I'm confused

I think what Jyms is trying to emphasize is that you need to know why you're making a play. Charts don't help with this. Think about the hands you play in relation to your position and opponent tendencies.

I know. I was just trying to be a pain in the ass. It's one of my specialties according to my wife

Originally Posted by Sasquach991

I was just trying to be a pain in the ass. It's one of my specialties according to my wife

Something we have in common, no doubt.

you know his wife?

Originally Posted by Keith_MM

you know his wife?

lmfao ut oh

Stats
Let me know if there are more that would help.

Game Type Description Hands $ bb/100 VPIP% PFR% 3Bet% WTSD% W$SD% Agg Agg%
$0.05/0.1 NL 16315 ($30.40) -1.86 17.2 7.6 1.5 25 50.8 2.28 31
$0.02/0.05 NL 40709 $119.90 5.89 21.2 7 2.4 28.1 50 1.67 26.1



Graph for 5NL and 10NL combined



Graph for 10NL only

Um, your difference between showdown winnings and non-showdown winnings is horrible.

Are you getting too deep into hands with no equity and folding the river? Or do you chicken out against strength with non-nut hands and dump?

Originally Posted by kb coolman

Um, your difference between showdown winnings and non-showdown winnings is horrible.

Are you getting too deep into hands with no equity and folding the river? Or do you chicken out against strength with non-nut hands and dump?

Yes and Yes

Or I have 2nd best hand

Yea red line drops a little fast but your biggest problems are preflop. You limp or call too often, you don't raise enough when opening, you don't threebet enough which allows players to fold correctly because you always have a great hand, and when they don't fold they have enough implied odds knowing you are stacking off to sets and two pairs way too much.

Your W$SD% is about 50% meaning your betting needs work, and you check/call way too much.

Yeah my quick glance agrees with Jyms completely. You need to get your preflop game in order. You are way too passive pre. Also looks like you never bluff other than cbet postflop which shouldn't be too bad at your stakes but I mean there's gotta be SOME spots they'll fold better hands.

Originally Posted by jyms

Yea red line drops a little fast but your biggest problems are preflop. You limp or call too often, you don't raise enough when opening, you don't threebet enough which allows players to fold correctly because you always have a great hand, and when they don't fold they have enough implied odds knowing you are stacking off to sets and two pairs way too much.

Your W$SD% is about 50% meaning your betting needs work, and you check/call way too much.

Another question: My trial of HEM is expiring Thursday. Any other stats I can give until then. I was planning on buying it when the trial ran out until all this crap happened.

I want to see steal%, positions stats, cbet%

Originally Posted by kmind

I want to see steal%, positions stats, cbet%

There's a ton of stats for each one of these. Can you be more specific?

This is the position image:



And then add flop cbet% and attempt to steal % to your main stats. You should use MSpaint+imageshack.us to ship pics.

I don't have HEM on this computer so I can't exactly tell you how to get to them but the cbet and steal% should be really easy, you just add them to your main stats.

This is only for 10NL





5NL

Stats added for 5NL and 10NL

as you can see, your EP and MP stats SUCK
you realize you're supposed to pay attention to position, right?

I VP$IP 8% UTG and 24% on the button and I still have the same stats overall in terms of VPIP as you, but most of my VPIP stats come from the late position

I have 14% PFR while you have 7%
I suppose you openlimp EVERYTHING
stop openlimping, start openraising

Originally Posted by iopq

as you can see, your EP and MP stats SUCK
you realize you're supposed to pay attention to position, right?

I VP$IP 8% UTG and 24% on the button and I still have the same stats overall in terms of VPIP as you, but most of my VPIP stats come from the late position

I have 14% PFR while you have 7%
I suppose you openlimp EVERYTHING
stop openlimping, start openraising

Yep, I've already been reamed out for that. I stopped limping tonight. Amazing how many pots you can take by doing that. Stats tonight are 16.8/13.8/3.62. It also made me think of why I was betting. I lost a few AI hands where my 2 pair lost to a set or set to flush/straight but I'm happy with my play.

I also noticed how much I've lost in the SB for 10NL. I was trying to steal and falling in love with my hand after I got a pair.

Thanks for the help folks.

Originally Posted by iopq

as you can see, your EP and MP stats SUCK
you realize you're supposed to pay attention to position, right?

I VP$IP 8% UTG and 24% on the button and I still have the same stats overall in terms of VPIP as you, but most of my VPIP stats come from the late position

I have 14% PFR while you have 7%
I suppose you openlimp EVERYTHING
stop openlimping, start openraising

This is why your ATS is so low. Juice up that PFR and your ATS will improve as well.

up your stealing... you don't steal at all

start by incorporating suited connectors 56+ into your range. then start adding more types of hands into your range, like suited one gappers (57, 79 etc) and unsuited connectors

if you're HUDing, raise atc against players that are 8/0 in both the sb/bb. you're basically freerolling orbits when you can keep taking their blinds for free

Originally Posted by AFchung

up your stealing... you don't steal at all

start by incorporating suited connectors 56+ into your range. then start adding more types of hands into your range, like suited one gappers (57, 79 etc) and unsuited connectors

if you're HUDing, raise atc against players that are 8/0 in both the sb/bb. you're basically freerolling orbits when you can keep taking their blinds for free

I stand corrected. I was limping from SB and then falling in love with a pair.

stealing is VERY important. in late position with only blinds and maybe 1 limp caller, raise it up. worst comes to worst if high cards come they'll put you on top pair and you take down even more than the blinds. works for me anyways. sure you will have the occasional hard ass who is determined to catch you stealing, but you have to lose some to win some as they say!

remember, if you hold AQo and you raise from UTG
YOU'D RATHER HAVE EVERYONE FOLD

Originally Posted by iopq

remember, if you hold AQo and you raise from UTG
YOU'D RATHER HAVE EVERYONE FOLD

I don't get this at all


Here's my take on why people at lower levels struggle and don't move up. I understand this could be misconstrued as mean/demeaning/upsetting to some, to those who feel that way grow a thicker skin kthxbai. These are not directed towards anyone in particular but basically my thoughts on this subject:

1. You're not smart

--Plain and simple you're just not an intelligent person who can process information quickly and apply it to the correct situation. We all seem to forget that everyone doesn't start from the same place in poker. I've yet to meet (and I've met a lot) a very good poker player who I would consider dumb. I've met a lot who regularly make stupid decisions (myself included) but that's "off the felt" so to say.

2. You're preconceived notions are holding you back BIG TIME

--You have a lot of thoughts about the game of poker that are just plain wrong. Yet, you are stubborn and will not let these go. Whether it was something you read or heard or just thought yourself chances are these types of thoughts are holding your game back. You need to keep your mind wide open about different lines/scenarios/explanations/etc... that could improve your game. I learn new things every day about poker that I apply to my game.

3. Your poker friends/buddies SUCK at poker

--The "blind leading the blind" line is never more true when I see a bunch of 10nl players chatting/discussing poker. It's not a bad thing to talk to people who are worse than you, it's just bad to talk to them (and take their advice) about poker. I have a ton of poker friends on AIM, at least half a dozen who I consider better than me at the game. I'm guessing you can figure out who I IM when I have a question. I also have people IM me all the time asking me questions, I certainly don't mind.

4a. You play way too many goddamn tables

--Any more than 4 tables for anyone playing under 50nl is just stupid. You're significantly stunting your poker growth.

4b. You use a HUD below 50nl

--Once again, a crutch that is stunting your poker growth. People who don't understand ranges and/or how to look at a situation or HH and place people on ranges rely way too heavily on these types of devices/programs to do the work for them. I have no problem with having a database to review your game.

5. You are playing the incorrect game for your style

--I'm fairly nitty, nitty enough that I wasn't that great at HU NL. I was aggressive enough to succeed at 6max but had even more success at FR b/c I was one of the more aggressive players at my levels. However, I get bored easily, so much so that playing only 12-15% of my hands killed my love for the game. I now play a game, PLO, where being tight means playing 25% of your hands and you're playing a lot more all-in pots than NL. The point is you need to find a game that matches your personal style. If someone likes to run 16/10 they shouldn't be playing 5/6-max, they should be playing FR. If they don't like getting in marginal situations against wide ranges, that's a FR player. If someone likes to mix things up, 3bet light, and get into battles, 6max/HU might be the game for them. Find a game where your style makes you the most money.

Nice post sir, but I would question whether choosing one style and one game is beneficial to one's poker growth.

Funny how these "I'm not talking about anyone in particular" posts seem to follow my posts around...

Let me summarize Spenda's post:

1. You are stupid
2. You believe stupid shit
3. Your friends suck at poker
4. You're stupid for playing >4 tables
5. You're stupid for using a HUD
6. You suck at your current game. Play the right one to not suck.


It's a good thing I started losing my BR at 10NL. It really made me think about what I was doing wrong and ask for help.
I did not ask my friends for advice, I asked y'all
I'm playing 3 tables.
HEM expired yesterday so I'm good.
Now I have to work on the "smart" part. See Sig at the bottom

AQo earns less than 1.5 big blinds per hand, look in your PT/HEM database
so if you raise AQo from UTG you'd rather have people fold than call your raise

anyway, Spenda gave very good advice to find the game that's best for you
I found that playing HU is best for me because I get bored with FR/6m

What Spenda says is true. What IOPQ says about AQo is not. The only thing I didsaggree with Spenda is the Hud. I don't liek guys having all those numbers on their Hud but VP$P and PFR are OK in my books. I think it helps you form ranges preflop, allows you to learn to play differently vs certain opponents and will make you adjust preflop to the table and seat position instead of using a damn hand chart. Now, as long as you cna do that without a Hud, go ahead.

As for AQo, mine is running about 44BB/100 over the last 75K hands.

filter to UTG

i love spenda!