ass backwards concept?

help me on this...

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG+1 ($10.65)
MP1 ($2.05)
MP2 ($3)
MP3 ($6.65)
CO ($17.10)
Button ($5.15)
SB ($6)
BB ($9.15)
Hero ($10.15)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 4, 4. MP2 posts a blind of $0.10.
Hero calls $0.10, 2 folds, MP2 (poster) checks, MP3 calls $0.10, 1 fold, Button calls $0.10, 1 fold, BB checks.

Flop: ($0.55) T, 9, 9 (5 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($0.55) 9 (5 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.4, MP2 calls $0.40, MP3 calls $0.40, Button folds, BB folds.

River: ($1.75) J (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets $0.7, MP3 calls $0.70, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $3.15

on a flop like this, against this many players, we dont prolly attempt to steal oop here, that much we have. but, on this turn?

now, we have a vulnerable boat. we know that other pp's may be in there, and likely they are better than ours, but will they call a bet? likely, but not all of them. T+ arent folding. we would love 22 to call.

is it worth it to stab here? the pot is small, i would say its 50/50 that we are best. i dont usually like the "only better hands call and all worse hands fold" stuff because...

here, if we wait and see if we can see a cheap showdown, a better card may come off on river that sinks a pot we could have picked up. there is no evidence that anyone likes their hand so far, and it doesnt cost much to find out. if we get raised, we fold. if we get called, we are likely done, too. but, if we check, and a blank comes, A-high may steal....and we are not calling that bet. therefore, folding the best hand.

isnt it better to stab cheaply, and find out, rather than fold to a likely bluff?

raise pre

I tend to raise PF about 1/2 to 3/4 of the time here. I like to limp on tables that aren't likely to raise me and will let me see a cheap flop.

I would probably often take a stab on that turn too, then I would probably lose and wish I hadn't even bothered.

It's spots like this, especially because of the small pot, where I'm starting to think it's better to just hope to check all the way through the river and don't call more than a minbet if someone else stabs.

If a river card pairs someone for a better boat, oh well, you only missed out on a small pot.

But then again, I'm only breakeven at this level, so...

Originally Posted by Warpe

raise pre

i dont raise all of them pre until i get to 88+. the others, i pick a color for the day, and raise those. today was red.

Originally Posted by Chopper

isnt it better to stab cheaply

preflop = $
flop =$$
turn = $$$$
river =$$$$$$$$

you lost me there. ^^^ too abstract.

limping is fine at 10nl with small pp's.

c/f all streets.

I dont mind the limp, depends on the table, but I guess its fine at most NL10 tables.

Check it down postflop.

If you never "take stabs" in 5-way pots at 10NL you wont go far wrong.

One thing that put me off playing hands like this preflop in this early a position was in a Harrington book where he explains that implied odds are greatly reduced in earlier positions. It sort of makes sense to me because if you hit your trips you want to be building the pot and betting which gives your opposition a chance to walk away. Whereas if you are in position they often do the building for you, at least initially.

doesn't stop me doing it tho. Personally I check and fold asap, not enough in the pot to worry about. hit trips or fold.

Preflop is fine, and not just at 10nl. Flop is fine.Turn is fine and the only spot I'm adding chips to the pot.

standard

Raising pocket 4's in early position at 10 nl is sort of overkill. You don't have to be that aggressive. You're rarely going to gain position and are probably going to be out of position against at least two players in a raised pot with an under pair most of the time.