Anyone play Loose Aggressive?

Talking to a coworker(a fellow poker player) yesterday and we were discussing the loose aggressive style of players such as Gus Hanson and Daniel Negreanu. My coworker has a natural tendency towards this style but can't make it work to a strong degree of success. I'm a fairly conservative player, who feels constrained by the tight aggressive style i've adopted. So basically we're wondering what successful LAggy players have to say about learning that style of play.

We figure the following to be true about learning/playing Loose Aggressive but I wanted to ask some more experienced players.

1) Seems like you're guaranteed to toss some money away learning this style.
2)It seems to be based more on reads than on odds (though odds always play some role in any style)
3) Seems like a tough style to master and probably more suited to tourney play.

Ryptide is the resident master of the loose aggressive style. Read his stickies. He's more tourney than cash as I gather. His general attitude is build a high stack or bust out early.

I also employ a loose aggressive style whenever I feel the need. Reads are a huge part of successful loose aggressive. I suggest you experiment with it not so much with the intent of becoming loose aggressive, but instead adding it to your arsenal.

Ryptides reads are so tight that he can survive on that style alone, but for most people it's best to be versatile. People who discover the various styles then try to identify themselves with them and become one. It's my opinion that your attitude should be "I want to become all of them"

Loose aggressive requires reads...

***** Hand History for Game 2850814462 *****
30/60 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 16449719) - Wed Oct 12 01:24:55 EDT 2005
Table Table 13767 (Real Money) -- Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 2: quainphoto (860)
Seat 3: mmbacon (460)
Seat 4: pasqui21 (775)
Seat 5: Fishtraper (945)
Seat 6: DEBNKEV (1150)
Seat 7: jhlouky (1120)
Seat 8: buffyayo151 (755)
Seat 9: Harbymo (1100)
Seat 10: Rondavu2 (835)
Harbymo posts small blind (15)
Rondavu2 posts big blind (30)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Rondavu2 [ Ah, Js ]
quainphoto calls (30)
mmbacon calls (30)
pasqui21 folds.
Fishtraper folds.
DEBNKEV folds.
jhlouky folds.
buffyayo151 folds.
Harbymo folds.
Rondavu2 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 2h, 2s, Ts ]
Rondavu2 checks.
quainphoto bets (50)
mmbacon folds.
Rondavu2 calls (50)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 8d ]
Rondavu2 checks.
quainphoto bets (100)
Rondavu2 calls (100)
** Dealing River ** : [ 2c ]
Rondavu2 bets (200)
quainphoto folds.
** Summary **
Main Pot: 605
Board: [ 2h 2s Ts 8d 2c ]
quainphoto balance 680, lost 180 (folded)
mmbacon balance 430, lost 30 (folded)
pasqui21 balance 775, didn't bet (folded)
Fishtraper balance 945, didn't bet (folded)
DEBNKEV balance 1150, didn't bet (folded)
jhlouky balance 1120, didn't bet (folded)
buffyayo151 balance 755, didn't bet (folded)
Harbymo balance 1085, lost 15 (folded)
Rondavu2 balance 1060, bet 380, collected 605, net +225



***** Hand History for Game 2850831269 *****
200/400 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 16449719) - Wed Oct 12 01:52:14 EDT 2005
Table Table 13767 (Real Money) -- Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 4: pasqui21 (1015)
Seat 5: Fishtraper (903)
Seat 7: jhlouky (1347)
Seat 8: buffyayo151 (3485)
Seat 10: Rondavu2 (1250)
Fishtraper posts small blind (100)
jhlouky posts big blind (200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Rondavu2 [ 5c, 5h ]
buffyayo151 folds.
Rondavu2 calls (200)
pasqui21 folds.
Fishtraper calls (100)
jhlouky checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 8h, 3d, 9h ]
Fishtraper checks.
jhlouky checks.
Rondavu2 bets (1050)
Rondavu2 is all-In.
Fishtraper calls (703)
Fishtraper is all-In.
jhlouky folds.
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 9c ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 4c ]
Creating Main Pot with $2006 with Fishtraper
Creating Side Pot 1 with $347 with Rondavu2
** Summary **
Main Pot: 2006 | Side Pot 1: 347
Board: [ 8h 3d 9h 9c 4c ]
pasqui21 balance 1015, didn't bet (folded)
Fishtraper balance 0, lost 903 [ 3c As ] [ two pairs, nines and threes -- As,9h,9c,3c,3d ]
jhlouky balance 1147, lost 200 (folded)
buffyayo151 balance 3485, didn't bet (folded)
Rondavu2 balance 2353, bet 1250, collected 2353, net +1103 [ 5c 5h ] [ two pairs, nines and fives -- 9h,9c,8h,5c,5h ]

i agree with Rondavu -- this stuff definitely needs to be part of your game regardles of your "prevailing" style.

If you concentrate on its strengths, there's no reason you'd be tossing away more money learning this style than any other.

Strengths:
-it's much harder for people to put you on a hand
-your big big hands get paid off with regularity
-you pick up an intangible perk -- "momentum" -- when the whole table is revolving around you play, waiting to see what you do, etc.

You're right that it's critical in tourney play -- but only in later stages. No one, not even rippy, is going haywire from the first hand of a big tourney (unless it's a rebuy). Not without good position, a good read, and good folding equity.

LAgging also can be profitable in cash games, too, though. You're going to take big chances and lose a buy-in or two or three. In cash games these buy-ins are an investment in later action.

Great advice so far. Anyone else have something to add?

don't fall in love with a hand. your pair of sevens with ten kicker might hold up, but be willing to throw it away when a queen hits.

no shit, i know. but all of us have a tendency to get carried away.

I play very loose and aggressive in tourneys when the blinds are worth taking. At first I'll wait for only the top hands to make a move, and after the first few levels I'll become more active. If it's ever folded to me in mid to LP I'll usually make a raise of 3 x BB, if I'm called I'll slow down depending on who calls me. If I notice a table sherrif called me then I know they're entering the hand with less than solid values and they probably have a marginal hand. Most smooth calls from the BB represent marginal hands. When I'm raised I usually fold unless I think they're on a resteal, in which case I'll come back over the top (as long as I have some fold equity). If a conservative player smooth calls pre flop I slow down dramatically. Against another aggressive player I'll often go for the resteal, which can significantly pad your stack if you made a good read.

The key to being an aggressive player is to target the weaker players at your table. If they're tight then rob their blinds on a regular basis. If they're loose and aggressive then come over the top of their blind steals occasionally. If you find somebody playing back at you (and if you play LAGG you will have at least 1-2 of these players at your table) then I'll put them to the test and put constant pressure on them. They won't call off all their chips with ace high or middle pair unless it's early in a small buy in tourney. Another advantage to being LAG is that you force every player at the table to define their hand when you raise.

Oh, and when you have a big hand prepare to get paid off. Don't change your betting patterns, just act like you're on a routine steal. Aggressive players have the best shot at doubling up than any other type of player. If you're going to play LAGG, be wary that you will face some big hands frequently. Find the rocks at your table and be careful when you enter a hand with them.

Hope that helped.

I like playing this, although recently i've been playing far tighter on the whole.

Part of the style (and one of the benefits) is the "momentum" effect that LeFou mentioned.

My addition to this is that during this "self-made rush" period, which usually involves raising the shit out of the table and hopefully showing down a few good, made, winning hands to reinforce your "dont mess with me" image... many players will shut up shop and look for opportunities to start slowplaying you.

To combat this you need to put your ego away and be alert for people flat calling your many preflop, flop continuation and possibly turn bets. It's SO easy to get caught up in your own "i've got momentum" image and run into a well-concealed monster.

Also, you'll always get one player (usually one who came to the table to play a bit of a LAGGy game themselves and finds themselves playing 2nd fiddle to you) picking spots to come over the top. Expecially if you bet, continuation bet and then check the turn on a risky board. Nice to fold a couple of these to him to set him up for a big re-raise when you have a proper hand.

So... great tactic on certain tables, but requires good instincts to keep your earnings.

Thats my thoughts anyway

{This post has been removed}

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

lol I have no idea how I got this reputation as a loose aggressive player....lmao

maybe a little early in a tourney...but late not eeeeeven. Im just as tight as the next guy during the meat of a tourney

now if its super late and I have a big chip advantage...then oh yea its laggy time and pounding the little stacks..

but I still dont know how I got this stigma of a LaGGy player it just aint true

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ic.php?t=15972
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...847&highlight=
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...352&highlight=

and it only took like 30 seconds to find those

Loose aggressive can be very entertaining indeed, especially in cash games. Personally, I switch it up sometimes based on the table, but most of the time I only choose to play laggy when I'm feeling confident.

Lefou put it good - there is an intangible momentum you pick up when you're playing your a-game laggy and are in the zone. You hit hands, you push people out, and build a huge stack. You still need to know when to give up, though.

I don't think you need to lose a buyin or two - thats kinda hard to come off of if you start out every session that bad. You'll lose plenty of buyins from getting yourself into marginal situations vs people who you know think you're full of shit. You'll also catch some crazy bad beats, but thats a good thing.

But don't forget that tight-aggressive is a very, very solid strategy. You should make plenty of money playing that way too. Not weak-tight or tight-passive...true tight-aggressive. You are still allowed to bluff, semi-bluff, and raise preflop when playing a solid tag game.

a self-proclaimed laggy player that is successful is a myth

Originally Posted by Greedo017

a self-proclaimed laggy player that is successful is a myth

I'm successful when I play laggy, does that make me a liar?

Originally Posted by Greedo017

a self-proclaimed laggy player that is successful is a myth

Originally Posted by SmackinYaUp

Originally Posted by Greedo017

a self-proclaimed laggy player that is successful is a myth

I'm successful when I play laggy, does that make me a liar?

no, silly. it makes you a myth.

seriously, though, there are plenty of non-myth players who lag it up and win, they just have a different set of skills.

They'll make sure to pick games where they can buy most of the unprotected pots.
They'll keep level heads when someone (finally) stands up to them and lays a sick beat on them.
They'll get away from hands they've been trying to bully their way through, when someone exhibits genuine strength.

I personally don't do this stuff often, but the logic is quite simple: you can win money by showing down better hands (Taggy), and/or by making opponents fold (Laggy).

For most people the former is much easier, though.

Originally Posted by SmackinYaUp

Originally Posted by Greedo017

a self-proclaimed laggy player that is successful is a myth

I'm successful when I play laggy, does that make me a liar?

You switch gears to LAGG though right? The LAGG player who can't switch gears is called an action junkie and they almost always end up broke. I think that's what he meant.

everyone plays laggy sometimes, I mean a laggy player. someone who sits down at cash games, and for 10000 hands plays 35% or whatever of them. don't see too many of these guys stick around. this is what the typical beginner is looking for, they see the guys at the table who has tripled up in 5 minutes and plays 40% of their hands and says I want to be like them so i can make money quicker. this works at the highest levels, if you're gus hanson. for us and at low limits, its just an ideal thats effectiveness is put to shame by boring old tag.

Originally Posted by Greedo017

everyone plays laggy sometimes, I mean a laggy player. someone who sits down at cash games, and for 10000 hands plays 35% or whatever of them. don't see too many of these guys stick around. this is what the typical beginner is looking for, they see the guys at the table who has tripled up in 5 minutes and plays 40% of their hands and says I want to be like them so i can make money quicker. this works at the highest levels, if you're gus hanson. for us and at low limits, its just an ideal thats effectiveness is put to shame by boring old tag.

I feel ya there. I absolutely believe in a solid tag game as well. Lag is just more fun and definitely makes you learn but its not god.

Loose aggressive play is a bit more fun as everyone said, but it's probably less profitable than tight aggression until you reach higher stakes where the players actually have some hand-reading skills.

If you ever want to be a great player, you definately have to learn how to play laggy at times. IMO it takes more skill to pull off and is not as consistent as your standard tag positional play. But at the right table, it can be very effective.. especially in tourneys where players are camping waiting for their monsters. Folded around to you in late position? raise with any 2, pick up the blinds or an uncontested pot post-flop if you sense weakness. When people lose respect for you and start calling you down is the when it's time to tighten back up again and get paid off.

My favorite is to play as a wise man from these forums once said:

laggy preflop, tag post flop.

Originally Posted by SmackinYaUp

My favorite is to play as a wise man from these forums once said:

laggy preflop, tag post flop.

I don't really get this style. I play against a lot of these guys and it just looks like the have leaks. Eventually their raises lose respect and they become really easy to read post flop. They seem constantly afraid of being outkicked and therefore bet weaker giving cheaper draws. I'm not saying it's a bad strategy, I just don't see how it's great.

Originally Posted by Rondavu

***** Hand History for Game 2850814462 *****
30/60 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 16449719) - Wed Oct 12 01:24:55 EDT 2005
Table Table 13767 (Real Money) -- Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 2: quainphoto (860)
Seat 3: mmbacon (460)
Seat 4: pasqui21 (775)
Seat 5: Fishtraper (945)
Seat 6: DEBNKEV (1150)
Seat 7: jhlouky (1120)
Seat 8: buffyayo151 (755)
Seat 9: Harbymo (1100)
Seat 10: Rondavu2 (835)
Harbymo posts small blind (15)
Rondavu2 posts big blind (30)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Rondavu2 [ Ah, Js ]
quainphoto calls (30)
mmbacon calls (30)
pasqui21 folds.
Fishtraper folds.
DEBNKEV folds.
jhlouky folds.
buffyayo151 folds.
Harbymo folds.
Rondavu2 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 2h, 2s, Ts ]
Rondavu2 checks.
quainphoto bets (50)
mmbacon folds.
Rondavu2 calls (50)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 8d ]
Rondavu2 checks.
quainphoto bets (100)
Rondavu2 calls (100)
** Dealing River ** : [ 2c ]
Rondavu2 bets (200)
quainphoto folds.
** Summary **
Main Pot: 605
Board: [ 2h 2s Ts 8d 2c ]
quainphoto balance 680, lost 180 (folded)
mmbacon balance 430, lost 30 (folded)
pasqui21 balance 775, didn't bet (folded)
Fishtraper balance 945, didn't bet (folded)
DEBNKEV balance 1150, didn't bet (folded)
jhlouky balance 1120, didn't bet (folded)
buffyayo151 balance 755, didn't bet (folded)
Harbymo balance 1085, lost 15 (folded)
Rondavu2 balance 1060, bet 380, collected 605, net +225

Nice hand histories and well played. But are these really examples of LAGGY play? AJ and 55 are not junk hands. It just looks to me like you outmanuevered your opponents post flop which is something a good TAGG player should be able to do as well. Just curious what your opinion was.

Originally Posted by Checkways

Originally Posted by SmackinYaUp

My favorite is to play as a wise man from these forums once said:

laggy preflop, tag post flop.

I don't really get this style. I play against a lot of these guys and it just looks like the have leaks. Eventually their raises lose respect and they become really easy to read post flop. They seem constantly afraid of being outkicked and therefore bet weaker giving cheaper draws. I'm not saying it's a bad strategy, I just don't see how it's great.

Well betting weak isnt a part of poker - giving odds is just fishy. You do have to be afraid of being outkicked, but its usually pretty easy to tell if you're up against an opponent who is trying to be the sheriff or if he actually has something. You'd be surprised at how often it goes fold, fold, fold though. When they stop respecting your preflop raises, then you have accomplished just what you want. Sure, its a pain in the ass when your in late position, raise with something like A7s and get 4 callers until the time you suddenly have a 16bb pot, a nut flush draw, position, and 4 unbelievers

You may have to check more on the flop, but so will they. You don't want to get it allin with top pair no kicker though because eventually, you'll hit a good hand, whether you actually have pocket aces, hit a set, or some weird straight, and you'll break them hard. The profit doesn't come from stealing pots, it comes from that one big de-stacking you're bound to give. Your opponents will be scared to bet because of your constant raises, they'll attempt to checkraise you and you can take so many free cards because of this. If it gets really bad and you can't hit any hands, then switch gears again.

The semi-lag play above just makes it easier for your opponents to call all-in bets. You're never really in any danger because you're in control and you can fold any time you need. I'd just suggest never bluffing the river because that always fucks me up.

The thing is, there are a lot of games where you can sit around all day and wait for pocket rockets and when you reraise, the opponents will still give no respect to it.

Originally Posted by SmackinYaUp

The profit doesn't come from stealing pots, it comes from that one big de-stacking you're bound to give.

Oh, that makes sense. Thanks. It's an interesting strategy. I take it that if your opponents are smart, they usually know you have a good hand when you're betting hard post flop, but it's much more difficult to pin point your exact holdings. So they wind up paying you off.

My typical game is tight with a lot of post flop bluffs which is almost the exact opposite of this style. I pick up lots of small and medium sized pots, but really only win big when there's a second best hand or I induce a bluff.

Maybe I'll drop down a few limits and give this style a try for a day or two. Got any tips for me?

Your style seems interesting too, I notice that people let go of pots that havent been raised much easier than if you raise pf.

I'm sure that at higher stakes people will notice the difference in agression preflop and postflop and catch on to the style if you don't mix it up postflop.

My only advice is this:
-get experience, especially shorthanded
-play when you're feeling extra confident
-play where the money doesn't bother you

I think dropping down in limits to experiment w/LAGGing it up is a good tip. That's actually a good tip for trying any new stategy. I'm doing that experimenting with multitabling SNGs. I generally play TAG it w/ a sprinkle of LAG to keep 'em guessing.

As has been stated, I think it's easier to play TAG and most people will do better with this style. I don't think too many people can play mostly LAGGy and win, but almost anybody can learn to play TAG and win. Also makes it easier to multitable as there will be less total decisions and also less tough decisions to make.

Originally Posted by Aces

Also makes it easier to multitable as there will be less total decisions and also less tough decisions to make.

Yeah, I'm a decent LAGG player in live games when the situation asks for it, but I couldn't even imagine trying it on multiple tables online.

Originally Posted by SmackinYaUp

My only advice is this:
-get experience, especially shorthanded
-play when you're feeling extra confident
-play where the money doesn't bother you

Thanks.

Originally Posted by dsaxton

Loose aggressive play is a bit more fun as everyone said, but it's probably less profitable than tight aggression until you reach higher stakes where the players actually have some hand-reading skills.

What leads you to this conclusion?