Any way to get away from a better set?

I am on about a 10 buy in downswing. I set mine a bunch and I have ran into a better set 5 or 6 times the last few sessions. Any thoughts to get away from this. Also this is the first hand I have posted please let me know if this is not right.

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($5)
SB ($5.05)
BB ($12.50)
UTG ($1.90)
UTG+1 ($3.01)
Hero (MP1) ($2.37)
MP2 ($5)
MP3 ($13.37)
CO ($11.26)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 5, 5
UTG calls $0.05, UTG+1 bets $0.15, Hero calls $0.15, 6 folds, UTG calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.52) 5, 3, A (3 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets $0.20, Hero raises $0.50, 1 fold, UTG+1 raises $1.20, Hero raises $1.72 (All-In), UTG+1 calls $0.82

Turn: ($4.96) 9 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($4.96) 3 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $4.96

Dont post results. Put him on a range. Im never not getting it in here.
oh and post reads

Dump 22-66 in early position. Maybe also middle position. That alone will prevent some "oversetting". Check your database and use filters to see where you loose money with your set mining (filter by position, by pair value, raised pots, limped pots, 3b pots, opponent's stats and position, etc) Find the leaks. The 22-66 in EP is a classic, that's why I mentioned it.

As for the hand, you can't get away from it. Maybe if the stacks were deeper and you have a very strong read that your opponent does not stack off with two pairs, or cannot have two pairs in this spot and does not stack off with TPTK.

Reads please, a lot of players might get it in here with AK (and some a lot worse!), some players might only play AA like this.

Why are you 1/2 stacked? If you're going to sethunt, please topoff, buy-in full, or play 2nl. You want a 100bb stack for maximum implied odds.

As far as reads i had sat down and seen about 10 hands and had no notes on this player. I buy in at 2.50 and to be honest I don't know why I do this. Should you always buy in at the full amount or would like $ 5 be good?

$5, or 100bb should be good. 1/2 stack makes it near to impossible to get the maximum profitability from hands such as this. If you buy in for deep stacks, like the $12.50 that you can buy in for on PS, then you'll need to be really good at post flop play.

Dude, set mining with a short stack (or against short stacks) is complete nonsense. This play needs big implied odds to be profitable, and the only way you get big implied odds is to play with (and against) a full stack (about 100bb is OK, don't play much deeper until you get good postflop experience).

As a rule of thumb, never call a raise preflop to set mine that is more than 8-10% of your stack (or the stack of your opponent is it is smaller than yours). You can always call if the raise is less than 4-5% of the effective stacks. In between, it depends on your hand, your position, your opponent, etc

Man thank you guys for the help. I feel like a damn fool because I haven't thought of being short stacked as working against me in this way. I will start buying in at $ 5 for now b/c my postflop play is pedestrian at best. Thanks again for the insight.

If you want to set-mine then you want to do it as cheaply as possible. If you don't hit your set, you fold. You also have to make better reads to know if your opponent has a better set.

Originally Posted by PokerWang

If you want to set-mine then you want to do it as cheaply as possible. If you don't hit your set, you fold. You also have to make better reads to know if your opponent has a better set.

Yes but how do I make these "better reads" if I have no notes and have only seen 10 hands? Do you see something in this hand that tells you to fold? or would you call?

I see now why you shouldn't post the results.

His range is 33, A3, 24 (lolz) and AA obv plus 5nl villains think top pair is the nuts so add AT+. Get it in and twice on Sunday.

Also think about folding preflop. At 5nl you're not going to have many squeezers but you might as well break the habit now. Too many people left to act to be cold-calling here unless the rest of the table is running 4/2

Originally Posted by gotigers1234

Yes but how do I make these "better reads" if I have no notes and have only seen 10 hands?

If you have no information on your opponent then it would be safe to assume a standard opening range of say 15 - 20% in LP and 8 - 10% in EP until he proves that he's opening lighter.

You may miss some opportunities against him but hopefully it'll help you avoid losing your stack by assuming he's playing trash when he might not be. Once he proves that he's an idiot and opens Q4o in MP then you can adjust your play accordingly.

Originally Posted by PokerWang

If you want to set-mine then you want to do it as cheaply as possible. If you don't hit your set, you fold. You also have to make better reads to know if your opponent has a better set.

Please explain. How should he go about 'making better reads' at a 5nl table where he'd actually be folding a set (on a board like this)?
I'd love to hear an explanation.... umm.. personally I'm never, ever, ever folding this hand.. EVER!!! (< I feel ridiculous even stating that.... sigh..)

Villains at 5nl LOVE to play Aces with anything and like StarGrinder said 5nl villains can't get away from TP even with a shit kicker, which means that he could have Ax, 33, 24 (HAHA). I'd still shove, even though he might have AA. I doubt he does though... a lot of people when they flop a set or a straight will try to slow play and check.
His bet sizing on the flop seems more like he's got A3 and got overexcited about his two pair.

There always seems to be a tendancy to consider unknows at the micros to be donks who go wild with any top pair. I think if villain was a complete donk, then hero would have at least some sort of read after ten hands, so I'd be more inclined to believe villain has at least some idea what he's doing, at least until he shows us that he doesn't. We do have a read, that he's not done anything stupid in the ten hands we've seen. Donks can't usually hold out this long without some form of spew.

Having said that, I'd still have AQ+ in his range, to go with the obvious A3 A5 33 55 AA (how is 24 in his range but not 35? I'd say neither are). Never folding this obviously, but I don't expect him to flip over AJ and weaker all that often. When he does, superb, don't forget to make a note.

24 and 53 are not in his range ldo, unless villain is just plain retarded. But srsly, we're always up against AA, 33, A3 or Ax. Still a call though and it's not even close.

lol @ the ppl who said you can't get it in here because they seen the results. /facepalm

Also flatting this hand is gonna be better w/ a bunch of 30/xs behind you then a bunch of 4/2s. dunno why you would think otherwise

Pre is fine. Raise flop bigger. Do some research on bet sizing. Never fold a set in fear of a better set (deja vu).

You're gonna find out that there is way more to learn here than you ever thought possible. Unless you have a really solid bankroll I suggest you move down to 2nl for now where it's cheaper/easier to learn. Grind out 20k hands there and evaluate you're play/winrate.

Originally Posted by OngBonga

There always seems to be a tendancy to consider unknows at the micros to be donks who go wild with any top pair. I think if villain was a complete donk, then hero would have at least some sort of read after ten hands, so I'd be more inclined to believe villain has at least some idea what he's doing, at least until he shows us that he doesn't. We do have a read, that he's not done anything stupid in the ten hands we've seen. Donks can't usually hold out this long without some form of spew.

I second that. Underestimating your opponent, in poker as in everything else, is a mistake. My "standard unknown" at 5NL is pretty TAGG until proven otherwise. However, it doesn't take much to have an idea, like the villain in the OP who is not full stacked and raised 3xbb in EP behind a limper, these are the first hints that he is probably not all that good. I am defo not folding my set here.

Originally Posted by PokerWang

If you want to set-mine then you want to do it as cheaply as possible. If you don't hit your set, you fold. You also have to make better reads to know if your opponent has a better set.

Some mod please strike this guy who has 81 perfectly useless one line posts to his count, stating the obvious or repeating what other posters in the thread already said.

Originally Posted by daviddem

Underestimating your opponent, in poker as in everything else, is a mistake.

I think so. If a decent player has just sat down, and we assume him to be a donk because we haven't got any hands on him, then right from the start he's able to exploit us. I'd sooner fold the best hand to an unknown than stack off with the worst (not in this spot, obviously never folding a set here). If noob villain is making dumb plays, he'll lose his stack sooner or later, we don't need to do him NOW. Sure, stack size and bet sizing can be indicators of a how skillful (or not) a player is, but at $5nl not many people are particularly accurate with their sizing, and some half-decent players might prefer a short-stack strategy (fuck knows why). You can make assumptions, but we don't know for sure if someone is a donk until we have a sample, so I prefer to give a villain at least a little credit until he does something that makes me reassess his skill level.

Also, I found $5nl to be a lot more difficult than $2nl, and suprisingly more difficult than $10nl. Seriously, after a few decent mtt wins, I left $2nl and stepped up to $5nl. After 20k hands or so, I was losing, so I just skipped $5nl altogether since I was easily rolled for $10nl, and now I'm making money. This after pretty much owning $2nl. Go figure.

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

lolllllllllllllllllll

2 thumbs up

cool sample size bro

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

cool sample size bro

That aimed at me? You checking my online stats to see how full of shit I am lol? Ok, I haven't played 20k hands at $5nl, it's around 8.5k, I was basically guessing badly, I couldn't be bothered to fire up tracker. Still, I was losing instead of winning, and I didn't like that very much. I did a big shit on $5nl and fucked off.

Originally Posted by OngBonga

That aimed at me? You checking my online stats to see how full of shit I am lol? Ok, I haven't played 20k hands at $5nl, it's around 8.5k, I was basically guessing badly, I couldn't be bothered to fire up tracker. Still, I was losing instead of winning, and I didn't like that very much. I did a big shit on $5nl and fucked off.

Nah I didn't look anything up, it's just such a common thing I already knew

I think my subconscious stops counting after 1675 hands.

nh, well played. Folding here is incredibly stupid. I mean, assuming his range is 33/AA only then you still shouldn't fold.

Always fold the 2nd nuts in spots where if had you gone forward in time with a time machine then back again you would have found villain to have the nuts.

Originally Posted by Carroters

Always fold the 2nd nuts in spots where if had you gone forward in time with a time machine then back again you would have found villain to have the nuts.

I wish I read this before I stacked off my aces last night. Goddam.