Almost done with 2NL...

Ok, I've had a chance to play fairly regularly a couple of 1hr sessions most days. Wow, the level of play at 2nl is really bad. I still make mistakes, but it's not rare to be up 150bb in under an hour (I buy-in for $3 if that covers all stacks and usually double-up).

So, my initial $50 dep is up to $135 or so, and according to the most conservative BRM'ers here I'm ready to move to 5nl.

Some goals and questions I'd appreciate advice/answers on:

1. Keep my head above water at 5nl (acronym Renton hates - hey I finally found out what this is! Never heard of it).
2. Make my first cashout at around $200 to pay for HEM and put my initial $50 in my pocket so I'm playing entirely with Fish Money.
3. Make an additonal deposit next time bonus whoring season opens.
4. (meme question) What is or is not a level? What constitutes such? Where does this come from?
5. Where is Wonderland? I miss him.

Thoughts?

Cashing out for HEM is fine, but don't put your initial deposit in your pocket. 5BI at 5nl can take 5,000 hands, and 5,000 hands at 25nl or 50nl= ~100 or ~300 dollars respectively (considering differing win rates). So you're costing yourself $250 by cashing out for $50 now if you see yourself beating 50nl in the future.

Sounds great. In answer to your question

Originally Posted by Dash

4. (meme question) What is or is not a level? What constitutes such? Where does this come from?

I raised preflop and cbet, my opponent raised.

0th level of thinking: I have a flush draw
1st level of thinking: My opponent probably has a TPGK type hand, or a draw or blah.
2nd level of thinking: My opponent probably thinks I have a TPGK/overpair.
3rd level: My opponent probably thinks I think he has...
4th level: My opponent probably thinks I think he thinks I have...
5th level: Fuckit im calling.


When you level someone you are correctly deciding what level they are on and then manipulating them with that knowledge. e.g. You think they are likely to think big bets are bluffs and small ones are value bets. You make your bluffs small and your value bets big.

Non-poker example:

Almost everyone:
Pelion: I am not a wolf
First level thinkers: Well that settles it.
Second level thinkers: Thats what a wolf would say!
First level thinkers: Oh yeah.
Pelion:

are you signed up for ww pelion? cuz we'd never lynch you honest.

Originally Posted by Dash

So, my initial $50 dep is up to $135 or so,

nh, congrats

Originally Posted by Dash

Some goals and questions I'd appreciate advice/answers on:

i'll hit 1-3

Originally Posted by Dash

1. Keep my head above water at 5nl

is this a question? guessing it's a goal. Better goal is to continue winning after the move up. Don't go changing your game at all to do this, if you win at 2nl for a decent rate then you beat 5nl too.
.

Originally Posted by Dash

2. Make my first cashout at around $200 to pay for HEM and put my initial $50 in my pocket so I'm playing entirely with Fish Money.

nah. Win at 5nl for a month and you'll be rolled for 10nl. Win at 10nl for not long and you'll reach a decent bankroll. Pretty soon you'll have an amount of money such that your initial deposit is a trivial % of your bankroll. This means that the withdrawal will have a tiny impact on your move up in stakes. Pulling it now (or even at $200) is an opportunity cost that far exceeds the $ value of the withdrawal etc. Look into free trials for PT3/HEM, maybe PT3 is on a time basis rather than number of hands (i could be wrong here, ask a micro grinder or google it)

Originally Posted by Dash

3. Make an additonal deposit next time bonus whoring season opens.

yes, a couple of caveats though. Check that you will be able to clear the bonus at the stakes you will be playing. Do not consider this deposit amount as part of your bankroll re stakes etc, and withdraw the amount once the bonus is cleared.

Alright, thanks for the tips, gang. Daven, that really makes sense.

I did the free trials for both HEM and PT3. I found both to be very useful in identifying some leaks. The HEM trial was so short I did not have much of a chance to get used to it, but it seems to be the tool of choice for most FTR'ers. PT3 was easier to see on a small laptop, tho.

My plan at 5nl is to keep doin' what I'm doin'. I expect my winrate will come down significantly, however.

What's a conservative roll for 10nl, just so I know what I'm shooting for? I'd guess around 30BI = $300?

Noob here:

When you say you are at 2NL or 5NL is this $0.01/$0.02 or $1/$2; $0.02/$0.05 or $2/$5?

Acronyms on this site are worse than the US Gov't. Is there a lexicon somewhere?

Thx

xNL means the buyin size is x, where x is 100 big blinds. Occasionally there will be deep stacked games where the buyin is 200 big blinds. In this case a $200 buyin game with 50c, $1 blinds would still be a deepstacked 100NL game. There should be a link to a glossary in the beginners digest or whatever its called. Check the stickies.

astrodon, there is a lexicon. Look on the left side and see Poker Lingo.

2NL refers to 100 x the big blind, or .02 in this case.

I'm on my 2nd day at 5NL, and I think I'm playing well, but I've had some serious beatings.

I've gotten the money in 3x when ahead with AA, TPTK, or an overpair and had callers catch their straight or flush. Eash of these hands cost me over $5. That's 3 BI (buyins) at 2NL! Bad luck as I'm sure I played these hands std.

The other big difference (besides enormous pot sizes) at 5NL is the aggression! Openers are often .25 or more, and people are constantly raising with Ax or any 2 broadways. I guess I'll just nit up until I'm more comfortable but I'm going back down to 2NL if I lose another $10 (back to $130 BR).

Things happen MUCH faster at this new level. I'm hoping it works the same way in reverse when I catch some cards.

Originally Posted by Dash

5. Where is Wonderland? I miss him.

From what I remember, he was way too results oriented and had a lot of problems with tilt, which aren't good qualities for successful poker players to have.

DASH:

I have a standing challenge with the folks I play with locally to put $50 on PS and play $0.02/$0.05 NL ring for 2500 hands. I am nearly certain they would be dumbfounded as to how difficult it is to remain consistent in what appears to be on the surface, an easy game.

I haven't played online for real money since the UIGEA bs. But, recently came back. Live I play in tourneys mostly and some 1/2; 3/6 at the casino and am better than break even as a recreational player. This micro-stakes thing is frustrating. I am currently down $9 at 02/05 had a long session where AA, KK, Set over Set and one Full house over full house took me down $14 in about 225 hands of play - ARGH! Putting people on a hand is very much a challenge at these levels.

Thanks for the info....

If you're not used to playing online or not even used to playing poker in general, then yes, $5NL or even $2NL could be difficult. They aren't complete maniacs 24/7 in those games. From my memory, there were actually MANY solid, nitty players nut camping. But, you start from the bottom, you study poker, you play poker, and you learn poker. After a while, you begin to notice that a LOT of the players are clueless and even many of the "good" players have very predictable, rote lines that are easily exploitable. Hopefully you were born with a little bit of talent and you SHOULD be able to make it up to at least $25NL and $50NL and many will go beyond that as well.

As far as your challenge, I was also on hiatus from the UIGEA and started back last December. @ $5NL after 2500 hands, even counting an initial 4 buy-in downswing, I was still up $35 or 7 buy-ins and had beaten the entire level for 30 buy-ins and ready to move up to $10NL in less than 8500 hands. If I went back and tried again, maybe I could do it faster, maybe it would take me twice as long or longer. Who knows? As long as you're making the right plays, you should be moving up, and not be at any one level too long before it's time to move up again.

And, if it takes longer for whatever reason, that's part of the fun of poker trying to figure it all out. Good luck.

Keep it rolling man, good luck.

Originally Posted by Dash

and people are constantly raising with Ax or any 2 broadways.

Thoughts on the correct adjustment here?