AK in position HU - Anyone else ever take this line?

Anyone else ever risk giving a free card to induce a bet on the river from a weaker hand that would otherwise fold to a value bet?

25NL

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG+1 ($14.05)
MP1 ($22.85)
MP2 ($19.55)
MP3 ($20.05)
Hero ($24.60)
Button ($9.50)
SB ($40.95)
BB ($20.45)
UTG ($25.45)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A, K.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.25, MP1 calls $0.25, 2 folds, Hero raises to $1.25, 3 folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls $1.

Flop: ($3.15) 5, Q, K (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets $2, MP1 calls $2.

Turn: ($7.15) 6 (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero checks.

River: ($7.15) 7 (2 players)
MP1 bets $3, Hero calls $3.

Final Pot: $13.15

i like it, goes back to my earlier thread about c-bet after missing, then trying again on river

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-41871.htm

so y;ou are going to get called by pps a lot, and worse hands.. i dont mind 5$ on riv.

Standard

Looks fine to me, i sometimes play just like that.

Originally Posted by Fnord

Standard

didn't realize....sorry to bore everyone lol

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

Originally Posted by Fnord

Standard

didn't realize....sorry to bore everyone lol

I never take this line, worrying about the straight- or flush draw. In addition to letting villain bluff his missed draw at the river we get away cheap against weirdly played KQ. I think I like the line, but I friggin' hate giving free cards. I find myself getting kicked in the balls on the river too much. I'd do this on a rainbow board though.

(And this is not boring.)

Against a good player I take this line for pot control and because most of the time it will get the most value out of your opponent by getting bluffs at the river. It also helps balance it out so that when you check the turn after cbetting the flop it doesnt always mean you missed.

At 25nl though against most opponents Im probably going Pot-Pot-Pot here because Ill get called by so many worse hands.

Originally Posted by HalvSame

I friggin' hate giving free cards. I find myself getting kicked in the balls on the river too much. I'd do this on a rainbow board though.

i know what you mean about hating giving freebies. one thing i'm wondering though is if inducing bluffs or even "value bets" from weaker hands might offset the times we would bet the turn and check behind the river or fold to a big bet fearing a completed draw or something. also, like andy says this makes it so opponents don't always assume i've missed after i check the turn after c-betting.

What do we do on a heart river? Call a reasonable bet or fold?

Originally Posted by HalvSame

What do we do on a heart river? Call a reasonable bet or fold?

call a reasonable bet

^^ i think villain is betting a Q or a weaker K more than a FD

I bet the turn here. Yes pot control is good with only Top pair, but you are beating so many hands that would call the flop bet and you are losing to only a few (KQ and 55). I think you lost value with that line.

If the pot was bigger preflop, lets say $4-$5 (because of a few preflop callers) i would like your line. however the betting would probably end up being, bet $3.50 on flop, check turn, call $6 bet on river.

Originally Posted by Massimo

I bet the turn here. Yes pot control is good with only Top pair, but you are beating so many hands that would call the flop bet and you are losing to only a few (KQ and 55).

That's sort of the point, isn't it? To let worse hands bet into us. Also we save a lot against KQ, possibly getting a free showdown/possibility to take the pot away should a heart hit on the river.

The flop/turn action suggests a flushdraw as the most likely hand (would KQ check call on a twoflush board?), I don't know if he bluffs it on the river often enough to make a check behind profitable.

if anyone is interested in the results of this hand villain actually held Js Ts

Originally Posted by HalvSame

What do we do on a heart river? Call a reasonable bet or fold?

call reasonable bet. it would cost as much as if we'd bet the turn and checked behind and it's cheaper than if we'd bet the turn and called river.

Checking the turn here with TPTK is very very weak. Just like Massimo said, you are only beat here by 55 or KQ. KK and QQ are not very likely.

If drawing hands call the flop, they'll probably draw from the turn. You are loosing value here and giving free cards by checking. I only like checking the turn against players who I KNOW are drawing, but this takes a lot of accurate reading.

By checking the turn, you gain zero information - leaving you to guess the river.

Also, which would you rather have?
1) check and have low PP give you one more bet
2) bet turn & river against >KJ

Since we have bet large on the flop, we have eliminated profitable odds for 9 outs or less. The turn and river bets can be small enough to entice weaker hands to follow along. Remember, we are probably not beat here. I'd rather be raised on the turn than to play a guessing game with an all in on the river.

Make your decisions as easy as possible, to do this, you need to gain as much information as possible. To maximize information, BET.

Originally Posted by BankItDrew

I'd rather be raised on the turn than to play a guessing game with an all in on the river.

this doesn't happen very often

Originally Posted by BankItDrew

By checking the turn, you gain zero information...

information is overrated

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

Originally Posted by BankItDrew

I'd rather be raised on the turn than to play a guessing game with an all in on the river.

this doesn't happen very often

Replace 'all in' with 'any big bet.'

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

Originally Posted by BankItDrew

By checking the turn, you gain zero information...

information is overrated

Information is everything. If we can narrow down our opponents range based on information, we can extract the maximum from them WHILE minimizing our loss. This equates to higher variance, but I'd rather play in big pots.