AJ (in general)

One of my trickiest hands, I think. I don't think I'm losing money on it, but always seem to feel like I'm in a tough spot. I'm generally limping this anywhere, cold-calling if suited on the button, in CO if button will likely fold. Will raise it from LP if folded to me. Comments on that?

Obviously I like a J high flop and if unraised PF i like my ace. Those aren't hard, but

I'm in pretty tight games (noble and gamesgrid) most of the time these days, so what kind of value does this have unimproved, e.g.

Flop 33Q -- bet at this? (C/F unimproved if called)

Flop 789 -- overcard + gutshot = 7 outs (Jack is not clean here). Ordinary OESD type bet (1/3 - 1/2 the pot)

Other gutshots (i.e. 2-broadway flops)?

Total rags (activate pp detectors)

I was raising and continuation betting this for a while from all positions - big mistake. Most hands calling you have you beat. I limp it now. But you have to think that anyone with AQ or better is most likely raising prelop. Therefore, if you flop an Ace, you are most likely ahead. Hands like AT will pay you often. On a jack high board, KJ pays you off too. The good thing about liming is you don't have much invested so you can lay it down quite easily.

If people check to me on any of those flops you list, I'm betting. Better to figure out if you are behind on the flop than to hit one pair later and realize your were beat already after sinking in more money. If somebody takes away your drawing odds, then just lay it down.

Limping sucks.

Originally Posted by Fnord

Limping sucks.

Care to elaborate? The previous poster discussed why he believes limping is the best way. Obviously you disagree. What is your suggestion with AJ?

Originally Posted by Ultimate George

Originally Posted by Fnord

Limping sucks.

Care to elaborate? The previous poster discussed why he believes limping is the best way. Obviously you disagree. What is your suggestion with AJ?

Raise LP. But, yeah I'm interested in why too. I played them both ways and I'm happier limping. Same with KQ. I was losing too much on these by raising all the time. I don't have Fnord's post flop skills, so I'm limping for now.

What does limping/raising have to do with your post flop skills in this situation? If anything, raising would help those with poor post flop skills by taking control of the hand, isolating, and (hopefully) buying the button. I will limp/fold/raise AJ preflop depending on the circumstances.. far too many to discuss here. Just don't call a raise from a tight player with it, but that should be very obvious.. but I felt it worth repeating.

Originally Posted by Ultimate George

Originally Posted by Fnord

Limping sucks.

Care to elaborate? The previous poster discussed why he believes limping is the best way. Obviously you disagree. What is your suggestion with AJ?

Sounds like it's a raise-or-fold for Fnord.

Me, I'm only raising if it's folded to me LP, perhaps if one pretty-loose limper is in.

And to elaborate/reiterate: I put some specifics, here, Lukie. Of course it depends. Unraised, I'm happy pairing either card, and play fast. Raised, I only like the Jack. Mucking offsuit to a raise.

And I said the games are generally tight. Not looking for The Answer, just insight.

If I'm in tight conservative mode I limp this from early and mid position. Limping does suck, but I'm just not going to raise KQ or AJ from UTG, and I'm not throwing it away for a limp either. If I'm first in mid then I probably raise it most of the time.

If I'm playing aggressive I raise 72 from EP. Eat it.

LMAO - waiting for that miracle 222 flop huh rondavu?
Goofingly went allin in a tourney late position medium stacked with 72o to buy the blinds (no limpers before me) - and had 2 callers on my miracle 222 flop :P
Not a play I care to repeat often but that one was fun!

The answer to "limping sucks" is, "it depends." There are reasons and times and hands to limp. I don't do so with AJ though. I fold it in early position in a full ring, raise in middle/late, and proceed with slightly more caution than usual post-flop if I miss.

Correction: Open-limping sucks

Originally Posted by Fnord

Correction: Open-limping sucks

I'll buy that. That's all you needed to say the first time.

Not to change the direction of this thread, but what about open limping a small PP if you are UTGish? Is that okay with you, or are you still *that* against open-limping?

Originally Posted by Ultimate George

Originally Posted by Fnord

Correction: Open-limping sucks

I'll buy that. That's all you needed to say the first time.

Not to change the direction of this thread, but what about open limping a small PP if you are UTGish? Is that okay with you, or are you still *that* against open-limping?

I was wondering the same thing.. I open limp my baby PP's from early position all the time.. and I think it's a great play. I'd rather limp/call then raise/face a tough decision to a reraise.

Raising PP's does have a lot of upside though I'd like to hear more from Fnord on this one. It's something I've been trying to incorporate into my game more, but I just don't see how open raising 22 from UTG would be better then limping.

I hate AJ myself.

I open-fold this piece in EP, because I hate all options. Raising this and repping the flop is no different than with any two. When you're getting called, you're usually losing. Limp-calling a raise isn't any better.

I generally play it only in LP, and sparingly there. I play it like most other weak aces, because I feel like it is one in ring.

I've read on here several times that AT is "virtually unplayable" in full-ring. I don't think AJ is too much of an improvement.

Originally Posted by Ultimate George

Not to change the direction of this thread, but what about open limping a small PP if you are UTGish? Is that okay with you, or are you still *that* against open-limping?

Depends on the game. If your opponents are willing to stack off in an unraised pot and aren't folding to aggression, etc. then limping has merit. Otherwise, raise it up!

I'll raise pocket pairs from late position (other than the button) after limpers to build a pot and take initiative quite often.

If your opponents are paying attention, they'll just raise to isolate you, c-bet and fold to resistance.

Good luck.

I play this hand differently from All positions based on action before me and the players at the table.. but hey, dont i do that with every hand?

Originally Posted by Fnord

Originally Posted by Ultimate George

Not to change the direction of this thread, but what about open limping a small PP if you are UTGish? Is that okay with you, or are you still *that* against open-limping?

Depends on the game. If your opponents are willing to stack off in an unraised pot and aren't folding to aggression, etc. then limping has merit. Otherwise, raise it up!

I'll raise pocket pairs from late position (other than the button) after limpers to build a pot and take initiative quite often.

I will raise any pp in any postion 70% of the time. But I limp with AJ in ep. Why? Because it gets dominated by the hands that call you, and in a limped pot your kicker can actually be a trap.

How is limping better than folding in that case?

Originally Posted by Fnord

How is limping better than folding in that case?

Because AJ is boss in a limped pot. I can play it fast without much fear. And since the pot is small anyway, I don't risk much. I'm just getting value out of it. But I wouldn't tell anyone not to fold it. I think that's also a reasonable play.

6 max raise
full ring dont limp in ep raise or fold (folding AJ in ep is horride but not a bad play imo)
mp raise
lp raise