AJ

I've been playing hold 'em for a while, but I just got serious about it. I play the 25 NL tables at part poker and win more than I lose. I can't say enough good things about this website. I learned about poker tracker through this site, and it amazes me how useful it is.

Anyway, in studying my tendencies, I noticed that I lose a whole bunch of money playing AJ. Suited, not suited, on the button, from the blinds, early position, late position, calling, raising...doesn't seem to matter how I play it, I lose alot of money on it. Should I just stop playing it? I pretty much have been able to stop playing it from early positions, but I'm still getting busted up playing it late. Would it be horrible to completely stop playing AJ? Would this hurt me in the long run?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Fnord and I have a back and forth about if it is good or not.

Fnord says AJo is not good and is simply a trap hand (Meaning it is a hand that will get you into many traps)

I say it's a good hand. that can take or take down a lot of pots.

Here's my honest opinion on AJ.

It depends on the situation.

On a full table ring game, I would lay down AJo in early position (UTG, MP) and raise AJs from early position. However, I may be inclined to call AJ s & o from late position, depending on the table.

In a tournament, play it hard when short handed. Play it conservative on a full table and in MTT. But in the middle of an MTT, this is a blind-stealing hand. Especially from late position.

As you can tell, it's all dependant on the situation. ANd even within these generalizations, it's a lot more complicated. I could play it one way one tim, and other way on the same day.

{This post has been removed}

within the tourney environment, AJ suited or not are both winners for me.

it's a very situational hand (all of humpty's good points) and you need to be careful with it.

i definitely prefer it as a tourney hand compared to a ring game.

--->filling out one Banning Request Form on fishmagician for stealing part of my name!

although, i have been thinking about changing my name fnordstick. hmmmm

welcome magicfish!

o Don't call credible raises with it at a full table. Even when playing limit.
o Be inclined to fold to a re-raise outside of blind steals, short stacks, etc.
o Don't play it unsuited from EP at a full table (unless it's a limit game, you're a strong player (be honest) and the table conditions are right.)

It's the 3rd biggest Ace, but beware:

If you flop an Ace, both AK & AQ have you out-kicked. AK pretty much never folds pre-flop, AQ rarely does.
If you flop a Jack, you're a bitch to AA/KK/QQ/JJ (QQ is the harder one to sniff out.) Any King or Queen turning or rivering is going to give you problems.
If the flop come out King or Queen high, your hand has little (if any) value.

BTW, for the record I once said it was a "Seductive little tramp that leaves you second best at showdown."

unless it's a limit game, you're a strong player (be honest) and the table conditions are right

This is the thing. I'm not too strong of a player, but I do pretty well by playing extremely tight pre-flop. Probably will just be real selective with AJ until I get better at reading players and overall post-flop play.

Thanks for the advice, all.

my opinion is that bet and fold to agression when you flop an ace

I've seen too many axo to let go of this baby

p.s I let go of ajo to minraise in MP/EP, and call up to 2bb (1$) in LP with it

It also depends on the limit you play at.

I play at Low-limit games now, and, looking at poker tracker, realize that i earn no profit from any Ax lower than AJs. Every hand above i'm making money, big money, every hand below, lose money.

However, this doesnt keep my from playing it because I too know that there are tons of people that play Axo. I even play A10o for some reason, i just cant pull myself to fold it. In the last day my A10 has lost to an AJ and my AJ has lost to an A10 so i would agree with everyone else.

ATo is near garbage. Blind/Post wars only for me.

{This post has been removed}

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

worthy of calling short stack all ins

Just ask Greg Raymer and Mattias Anderson....Mattias will big to differ that A/10 is 'garbage'

We're talking about ring games here, though, Ripp.


And I'm one of those ring game camping sharks that you despise.

Here's a sticky AJ scenario... CARDSON


***** Hand History for Game 981901587 *****
0/0 TexasHTGameTable (NL) - Fri Sep 24 02:13:42 EDT 2004
Table Table 14793 (6 max) (Real Money) -- Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 1: time4therive ( $155.87)
Seat 3: syempre ( $61.90)
Seat 4: hungrydogs ( $190)
Seat 5: serialx ( $413.90)
Seat 6: KBnike69 ( $66.55)
KBnike69 posts small blind (0.50)
time4therive posts big blind (1)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to serialx [ Ad, Jd ]
syempre folds.
hungrydogs calls (1)
serialx raises (3) to 3
KBnike69 calls (2.50)
time4therive calls (2)
hungrydogs calls (2)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Tc, 9d, 2c ]
KBnike69 bets (1)
time4therive raises (2) to 2
hungrydogs calls (2)
serialx calls (2)
KBnike69 raises (2) to 3
time4therive calls (1)
hungrydogs calls (1)
serialx calls (1)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ Ac ]
KBnike69 checks.
time4therive bets (6)
hungrydogs raises (12) to 12


...what now?

Fold the flop. Both backdoors and 2 flush tainted, crappy overs. I'd only call here if the pot was big or I could close the action cheap. Turn is a fold too.

So here's the rest... CARDSON


** Dealing Turn ** : [ Ac ]
KBnike69 checks.
time4therive bets (6)
hungrydogs raises (12) to 12
serialx folds.
KBnike69 raises (60.55) to 60.55
KBnike69 is all-In.
time4therive folds.
hungrydogs calls (48.55)
** Dealing River ** : [ 4s ]
Creating Main Pot with $149.10 with KBnike69
** Summary **
Main Pot: $149.10 | | Rake: $2
Board: [ Tc 9d 2c Ac 4s ]
time4therive balance $143.87, lost $12 (folded)
syempre balance $61.90, didn't bet (folded)
hungrydogs balance $123.45, lost $66.55 [ 2s Ah ] [ two pairs, aces and twos -- Ah,Ac,Tc,2s,2c ]
serialx balance $407.90, lost $6 (folded)
KBnike69 balance $149.10, bet $66.55, collected $149.10, net +$82.55 [ 9c Qc ] [ a flush, ace high -- Ac,Qc,Tc,9c,2c ]



Like FishMagician, I've recently dramatically downgraded my value of AJ. Having lost a lot of hands lately with AJ had something to do with it. I would much rather see a Jack-high on the flop than an Ace when holding AJ.

But this scenario on the turn was a pretty easy laydown. Just wanted to illustrate that, sometimes, you gotta let it go even if the card you're looking for does come. Too many likely hands here that could beat it: 2-pair (though, I wasn't thinking anyone had Ace-TWO!), AQ, AK, and obviously, the flush.

Originally Posted by Fnord

Fold the flop. Both backdoors and 2 flush tainted, crappy overs. I'd only call here if the pot was big or I could close the action cheap.

I guess the $17 pot isn't big enough...?


But yeah, I wasn't too keen on the bet/raise before me, but they were each minimums. And I wasn't thrilled with the re-raise after me, but again, it was the minimum of $1.

With this action on the flop, I was actually hoping NOT to see an Ace or a Jack on the turn, but rather, a small diamond that doesn't straighten the 10/9.

Originally Posted by Xianti

With this action on the flop, I was actually hoping NOT to see an Ace or a Jack on the turn, but rather, a small diamond that doesn't straighten the 10/9.

The problem is that a diamond could hit and you would still not get implied odds to chase. The pot is a joke (relative to the stacks), not worth a fight. When you call, even though the bets are a joke too, you're not closing the action...

edit: One more thought, with a limper in front my standard raise here would be $4-$5.

Originally Posted by Fnord

Originally Posted by Xianti

With this action on the flop, I was actually hoping NOT to see an Ace or a Jack on the turn, but rather, a small diamond that doesn't straighten the 10/9.

The problem is that a diamond could hit and you would still not get implied odds to chase. The pot is a joke (relative to the stacks), not worth a fight. When you call, even though the bets are a joke too, you're not closing the action...

I hear ya.

Now I see what you meant about folding to that action on the flop. There was no card that could come on the turn that would then make me feel wholly comfortable with betting or calling.

Heres an example of AJ sucking. What a dumbass. This screamed AA.


#Game No : 987400951
***** Hand History for Game 987400951 *****
$25 NL Hold'em - Saturday, September 25, 16:47:01 EDT 2004
Table Love N Kisses (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 4: G_Money521 ( $32.4 )
Seat 8: bubb4 ( $16.05 )
Seat 9: dasorrells ( $31.45 )
Seat 6: YoLuds ( $28.55 )
Seat 7: akestler ( $25 )
Seat 2: home123 ( $57.65 )
Seat 3: SuicydeAlley ( $16 )
Seat 5: HvnlyFire ( $19.25 )
Seat 1: RiskyWhiskey ( $25 )
Seat 10: HoldemGreg66 ( $25 )
bubb4 posts small blind [$0.25].
dasorrells posts big blind [$0.5].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to G_Money521 [ 2h 3c ]
home123 raises [$2].
SuicydeAlley calls [$2].
G_Money521 folds.
HvnlyFire calls [$2].
YoLuds folds.
akestler is all-In.
bubb4 folds.
dasorrells folds.
home123 calls [$23].
SuicydeAlley folds.
HvnlyFire folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9c, Qd, 2d ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 3s ]
** Dealing River ** [ Qs ]
home123 shows [ Ad, Jc ] a pair of queens.
akestler shows [ As, Ac ] two pairs, aces and queens.
akestler wins $54.75 from the main pot with two pairs, aces and queens.
Game #987404512 starts.

{This post has been removed}

I'm a big fan of AJ and AT at the 6 man tables.

Fnord, I know you are a big person who doesnt like the hand AJ, now does this also mean you dislike the hands KJ and QJ?

I've found that KJ is profitable but QJ isnt really unless its suited.

However, this coming after I lost AJ to a QJ river queen....

{This post has been removed}

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

found this on cardplayer.com

A $20-$40 game. You are on the button with the A-J and open with a raise. Both blinds call. There is $120 in the pot and three players. The flop is: Q-T-3, giving you a gutshot with an overcard. Both blinds check. You bet and only the small blind calls. There's $160 in the pot. The turn is the 8, giving you four more outs to a straight. Your opponent checks. What do you do?

Answer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bet. The player in question checked because he thought he wanted a free card. But when you are heads-up with position over your opponent, and the turn-card is unlikely to have helped him, you should bet again. You may win the pot outright if your opponent was hanging around on middle pair or bottom pair. Furthermore, with eight outs to a straight plus three more overcard outs, you will catch something good at the river about a fourth of the time anyway. Finally, if he is on a flush-draw, then you are giving a free card, not taking one, and a check would invite him to rob you at the river. It is seldom right to take a free card on the turn (and thereby reveal you are on some kind of draw) when you have one opponent and something to show down.

http://cardplayer.com/pokerquiz.php?...2b0f9a61be0d31

Thats really just standard. If you open the raise, most of the time you keep betting until met with resistance.

{This post has been removed}

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

Fnord, I know you are a big person who doesnt like the hand AJ, now does this also mean you dislike the hands KJ and QJ?

I've found that KJ is profitable but QJ isnt really unless its suited.

However, this coming after I lost AJ to a QJ river queen....

These hands are all about position and/or number of players at the table. Heck, I've 3-bet AJ a few times.

It's just that lots of people think AJ is a powerful hand that belongs up there with JJ/TT/AQ. It's not even close.

Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:42 am Post subject:
It's just that lots of people think AJ is a powerful hand that belongs up there with JJ/TT/AQ. It's not even close.

Amen to that. And Even JJ or TT isn't that good in a limit game when people play any Face Card. If you don't hit your set you are pretty much fubared, unless you have over pair. I've lost a ton of money on limit playing JJ, I could raise, call, it doesn't matter. JJ and TT are only real good playing NL when you can bluff the pot. I put AQ up there with AK, only because I've lost few pots to an AK when i've had AQ, most were just bad luck (King rivering, inside broadway, etc.)

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

Amen to that. And Even JJ or TT isn't that good in a limit game when people play any Face Card. If you don't hit your set you are pretty much fubared, unless you have over pair. I've lost a ton of money on limit playing JJ, I could raise, call, it doesn't matter. JJ and TT are only real good playing NL when you can bluff the pot. I put AQ up there with AK, only because I've lost few pots to an AK when i've had AQ, most were just bad luck (King rivering, inside broadway, etc.)

Disagree. JJ/TT are twice the hand AJ ever could be. Both hold up to the onslaught enough unimproved or catch on the turn/river to make a nice profit.

AJ is basically identical to KQ in strength, as both are just dominated by the same two unpaired hands. Neither play well against a solid raise.

I think AJ is a good hand in many situations. If you dont hit the flop u even has 2 overcards if the pot is checked or bet weak. When someone pushes very hard just fold, its not worth to protect it down to the river

I like this kind of hands, when u are done or out after the flop

JSmu

I think I said this elsewhere but obviously AJ is a good hand to play in an unraised pot where people may limp in with A-anything.

Gravedig anyone?

-Chris

Matthew Hilger gives a good rundown of playing AJ in his ITH book(I highly recommend picking it up).Your goal with AJs is to always limp from EP;you can call a raise depending on the player and table dynamic.If you hit the flush draw generally you're money.AJo is a bit trickier since you shouldn't call raises with it(and thus making it ricky to limp with in EP). If you really feel uncomfortable playing it then treat it like Ace-X suited and go from there;that should cut your losses.

AJ?
limp, even if suited
If raised pot dump it unless its suited and you can discipline yourself to play only for a flush .
If jack high flop you may be ahead in unraised pot.
If ace high you may be ahead just in an unraised pot.
Still it sucks in anything but mtt. Then it only not sucks in late stages.
my .005 cents
Oh heads up its awsome!