Adventures at Party Poker (pt 2)

Well, the Party Poker move has been working really well for me so far.

Having taken the free $50 from the staking site and opening an account on Party I've sat down at 8 tables, played 342 hands and made $19.80 in profit.

Now, I'm a cheapskate (is that coming across?) so I haven't bought PokerTracker and instead I've written my own database (so I could also put in my Everest Poker histories). But according to that I so far have a VPIP of 39.8% (yeah, I know, small sample) which sounds high, but looking at the hands I played outside of the blinds only A6s, A7s and J9s (limped each once, folded after a missed flop) are considered marginal hands (or worse).

One of the reasons for the high VPIP (it is high, right?) is that I'm obviously getting good cards atm. The other is that players limp almost everything. I've played every KQ, KJ, AJ, AQ because I've never been raised pf with them. (I've folded QJ a couple of times just because it was early position, but that's it).

So, I hope that even when a poor run of cards comes I still get away with a few mistakes because these tables are terrible.

Anyway, while part of my brain is falling into the "oooh, this is sooo easy" trap (I won $20 in two days compared to the $0.75 from 80 micro sngs- about 18% ROI) I know that part of my success is the cards.

Tonight I played a little while eating dinner (no, I'm not addicted. No. Hush). 15 hands went like this:

1)Post blind: 34s, check, flop comes up 567, two clubs. I'm worried about better draws so bet over and take the pot.
2-5) 73o, A4o, T9o, 72o all fold.
6) JTo BB, check, nothing.
7) JTo SB call BB, nothing.
8) QAs, one caller, miss flop, bet turn, take pot.
9) KQo flop Q44, take pot
10-11) T6o, 82s fold
12) 44, limp, hit trips. Win big pot.
13) 94o BB, check, flop a 9, river 4, win big pot
14) 66, no trips, fold
15) 33 (see below)

Those who've played a lot probably think nothing of this, but when I'm used to getting a playable hand once per round or something, this was stunning. I wonder if online poker is rigged?

Anyway, while making a tidy profit from my dinner, I felt I had to lay this one down. What do you guys think?

Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.02/$0.04
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is Button with 3 3
UTG calls $0.04, 3 folds, MP3 calls $0.04, CO calls $0.04, Hero calls $0.04, SB calls $0.02, BB checks.

Flop: 3 9 7 ($0.24, 6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets $0.15, MP3 folds, CO raises to $0.3, Hero raises to $1, 3 folds, CO raises all-in $4.97, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: $3.97 returned to CO.

Results:
Final pot: $2.39

What can he have had? Didn't raise pf, but goes all-in with this flop? If he's hit trips he's beaten me, pretty much anything else and I've won.

Insta-call.

He could have 79, a nutflush draw, a str8 draw, a str8 flush draw, or even 9A or a weakly played overpair.

Never, ever fold a set on a flop where it is impossible to have a made hand better than a set.

I would have called here.. he could be trying a bluff (not likely), maybe he has 97 or A7/A9; On the flop he could have been downplaying his TT/JJ/QQ.. so many hands this could be played like and only 99 and 77 beat you..

NEVER fold a set on the flop.

Originally Posted by Irisheyes

NEVER fold a set on the flop.

Meh - if the flop was 3d 4d 5d and you have a read that your opp will only push with a made hand, I can see folding the set here as OK if you are not too invested and both of you are deep stacked. But calling is never bad either because no matter what you have outs to fill your boat.

Originally Posted by Irisheyes

NEVER fold a set on the flop.

Not even in this situation?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG+1 ($18.05)
MP1 ($30.80)
MP2 ($34.70)
MP3 ($24.65)
CO ($24.40)
Hero ($57.35)
SB ($39.52)
BB ($25.25)
UTG ($21.69)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K, K. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
UTG raises to $0.5, 5 folds, Hero raises to $1.5, 1 fold, BB calls $1.25, UTG calls $1.

Flop: ($4.60) A, 3, K (3 players)
BB checks, UTG calls $20.19 (All-In), Hero calls $20.19, BB folds.

Turn: ($44.98) 8 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($44.98) T (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $44.98

Results in white below:
UTG has Qh 6h (high card, ace).
Hero has Kc Ks (three of a kind, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins $44.98.

ahaha

So... pants.

Okay, live and learn.

I just had trouble betting on my opponent being an absolute moron. I mean, that's what I'm doing. Unless he's got two-pair I can't even begin to imagine an all-in bet here.

Ed's example just baffles me. People call with that?
Suddenly Fnord's avatar seems soooooOOOOOOOoooooo apt.

Originally Posted by Anosmic

Unless he's got two-pair I can't even begin to imagine an all-in bet here.

A flush draw with any card over a 9 there would go all-in in games at almost any limit.

At .02/.04 - someone with 7T os might very well go all-in there.

There's definitely like 30 hands that might get the money in here. Especially that amount of money.

That was a horrible fold, IMO.

Why did you limp 33 again? Seriously, lots of draws push there, lots of weak top pair hands, two pair hands, middle pair hands, slowplayed overpairs, and air.

Originally Posted by sejje

There's definitely like 30 hands that might get the money in here. Especially that amount of money.

That was a horrible fold, IMO.

Why did you limp 33 again? Seriously, lots of draws push there, lots of weak top pair hands, two pair hands, middle pair hands, slowplayed overpairs, and air.

Yeah, I'm starting to see that I've been giving this level far too much respect.
Far, far too much.

Yup I said it before and I'll say it again:

Pants.

Nah, I see limping as a pretty decent move here.

Ideally, you want the fish to catch small bits of the flop, like top pair, middle pair with a high kicker, and belly-busters.

Anosmic, I think it's a common pitfall that you'll be thinking "worst case scenario" on every board you see. I myself fall prey to that a lot too. It takes some confidence and experience to be able to see all the possible options that could lead to this kind of betting. Here's an example from personal experience:

Basically, even in the randomness of the fish there is some statistics, it's just a bit harder to see it lol. Here is an example from personal 10NL experience.

Say a guy throws a huge bet out of nowhere. Hm, what to do? You have TPMK, but there's always the possibility he has a set, two pair, etc. Standard fold and wait for the nuts and hope to cash in then? I think you'll be running out on a lot of money in the long run this way.

Now, if there just came a 3rd heart which prompts him to throw his money, there's a good chance he hit his flush. A lot of the time when these guys hit a winner, they'll slow-play it, because they don't want to scare you away. Ofcourse, it's possible that this one time he hit something, and decided to bet big. But it's not a certainty. But let's take the case of a blank on the turn and suddenly he throws a huge bet around.

Hm. What would he have? It's possible he hit, say, a set, and downplayed it on the flop, and now decides he wants to cash in. Most likely he'd throw small here though, to not scare you too much. Or he hit a set or two pair on the turn. So let's give the chance he actually got you beat with this betting 1/5.

Another possibility is that he got nothing but just decides "it's time to take a free pot". You'd be surprised how often these guys play backwards like this.. bet small on winners, bet big on bluff. Let's give this a 2/5 chance to be the case.

The third possibility is that he is chasing. People use this kind of logic: I wanna chase this straight.. but how to bet? I'll just throw big, he'll probably fold.. and if he doesn't, I could still hit my straight. Let's give this 2/5

So, with my TPMK: 1/5 he got me beat, 2/5 I got him beat, 2/5 he got like 1/6 to win and I got 5/6. So all in all, sounds like a positive bet to take don't you think?

But there are a lot of considerations you have to make.. according to the board, what you have, what he could have, how he plays, etc. I'm still a bit haphazard with it, probably need more experience here to get better, but I'm trying to get over this "taking the easy way out" kind of thinking.. you just miss out on too much money that way.

Originally Posted by Ash256

Nah, I see limping as a pretty decent move here.

Ideally, you want the fish to catch small bits of the flop, like top pair, middle pair with a high kicker, and belly-busters.

I think sejje was asking why you limped rhetorically - the whole point of the limp preflop is to "set it or forget it". You did just that and still folded.