Absolute F**king b*****ards

Guys,

Almost had my bankroll RAPED tonight by calling stations. It's 5am and i've been slowly clawing back my losses only to have them snatched away on the river.

What do you do, when you raise with AJ, the board comes down with a Jack, you bet, bet, BET and he makes his set on the river. What are you supposed to do!?? because there ARE times when such people will take down every pot you're in, so value betting is out.

Think someone could just die of anger??

If someone will call 2 streets with an underpair then value betting is IN, IN, IN!!!

Stuff happens, sometimes the deck just keeps kicking you in the ass, but if you consistantly value bet the best hand then over a large enough sample you'll make good money.

As for dealing with it in the moment, you gotta find what works for you. For me, I usually just take a deep breath and remind myself that I WANT to play against people who will call to the river with crap hands, because over time they're my main donators.

Probably the wrong idea is to chase losses until the early hours of the morning when you're emotionally affected by it though.

take a break. don't play for hours on end trying to get even. don't make posts on here about bad beats, and don't dwell on your bad luck.

donk it up in play money if you're tilting... if you're playing with a proper roll then you shouldn't be tilting...

Step 1: This belongs in the tilt forum.
Step 2: Read http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ll-t65393.html
Step 3: Shut the fuck up and grind

avoid tilt. It sucks but you have to try. The game doesn't always reward the correct move.

Just some hands of the night to prove i'm not just whining:

http://weaktight.com/450805

http://weaktight.com/450807

http://weaktight.com/450808

This was happening all night. I just knew i could take their stack if i played a monster as though i was just calling on tilt or something but the situation never came up.

But my reasoning was getting affected, if i got a flush i didn't dare value bet because i thought they must have it beat. These guys took out my TPTK, trips, flushes. This isn't just a whine it's questioning what the hell you do when this happens. Every time I got decent starting hands I lost money.

Another point about cbetting. I started to cbet my missed flops, standard. But was getting called near 100% of the time and I was missing a huge amount of the time, so no more cbetting. Thoughts?

bjaust, where do you get the cool signature?

Change tables
Change levels
Change games

...prolly in that order... but if you gonna keep playing when you're PO'd and not playing your best, def dial it back to a level where the moniez don't matter...

In the three hands that you posted, do you think you played optimally in all of them?

For the first hand, what did you put him on after he raised the river?

Do you want to explain your bet sizing for the third hand?

I mean I understand that you're probably getting bad beat a lot lately and you feel like you just can't win anything, but I highly doubt you're playing perfectly either. Instead of making a post whining about howyou're so unlucky, post some hands and read more. I 100% would have moved this to the tilt forum if you hadn't at least posted a few hands.

You're going to run bad in poker. That's all there is to it. You are not the only one. If you don't want to go thru it, find a new hobby.

Originally Posted by wonderland

Just some hands of the night to prove i'm not just whining:

http://weaktight.com/450805

http://weaktight.com/450807

http://weaktight.com/450808

This was happening all night. I just knew i could take their stack if i played a monster as though i was just calling on tilt or something but the situation never came up.

But my reasoning was getting affected, if i got a flush i didn't dare value bet because i thought they must have it beat. These guys took out my TPTK, trips, flushes. This isn't just a whine it's questioning what the hell you do when this happens. Every time I got decent starting hands I lost money.

Another point about cbetting. I started to cbet my missed flops, standard. But was getting called near 100% of the time and I was missing a huge amount of the time, so no more cbetting. Thoughts?

You *are* just whining. If you play good then you make money over the long term.

Originally Posted by wonderland

Just some hands of the night to prove i'm whining like a stuck pig

fyp
stop whining. this is the why of bankroll managment. Beats and downswings happen.

looking over my hands, they were a little odd but that's because i noticed a strange phenomena, the more i bet and made it unprofitable for them to call, them MORE they called... ??

and the more they sucked out.

So my point was about how to change/adapt your game when this happens? it's not normal poker then. Take the hand where the guy called a PFR with 84o.

Don't you want 84o to call you preflop?

to be honest, no. I find those are trouble hands and you can't predict what the fuck they have.

Anyway i just got quads so i guess that's variance.

But there's no point in me trying to discuss how to deal with unusual players as i'll just get labelled a whiner.

Originally Posted by wonderland

to be honest, no. I find those are trouble hands and you can't predict what the fuck they have.

Anyway i just got quads so i guess that's variance.

But there's no point in me trying to discuss how to deal with unusual players as i'll just get labelled a whiner.

Your not asking how to deal with unusual players, or at least it sure doesn't sound like it. It sounds like your asking how you can avoid bad beats, suckouts, coolers. And the answer is simply, you can't! And believe it or not, you shouldn't care when it happens. Everytime you get a bad beat, you got your money in good and will win money in the long run.

You can't stop betting a solid hand because you think they will suckout anyways. If you do this you are going to be missing out on value. As far as the c-betting with air goes, remember it shouldn't be done 100% of the time. It's okay to check/fold flops that you miss against villains that just won't fold.

And whether you say this is a whine post or not, it will definately come across as just that to any poker player that has a basic grasp on poker. You can't change your play just because you get sucked out on. If you made +ev plays every instance, then you made money. If you made a -ev play, then you lost money. Simple as that. Coming here and whining about losing a few hands will get you nowhere.

thanks stax.

Ok, my actual actual point IS...

What about the idea of +EV meaning to play with your opponents in mind. Is it +EV to play standard when they're playing very unusually.

Example: you hit TPTK on the flop and bet good, 2/3 or full pot. You get raised, or check raised. You know they're unusual and have seen them pluff before or even call a PFR with nothing. How do we play against such people.

Scenario b, you fire out 3 barrels and the insta-call each time, no matter how big the bet.

What the fuck are you talking about?

oh you know what, fuck it then.

Step 1: Put Villain on a range
Step 2: Make +EV decisions based on that range
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit

If you play good hands v's crap hands you'll win more often than not. HOWEVER, if someone starts getting aggressive, ask yourself why. A lot of it depends on whether they bluff much or not. If they dont bluff much, then whatever whacky hand it might be that beats you, they probably have that when they raise you.

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

What the fuck are you talking about?

This is the title of my new book btw. Thanks for inspiring me to create it.

Originally Posted by wonderland

Scenario b, you fire out 3 barrels and the insta-call each time, no matter how big the bet.

I make TP+ and get all the money in by the river with a grin on my face!!

Hand 1: I would have probably played just like villain. Did you expect him to fold TPMK and a flush draw on the turn?

Hand 2: Granted the preflop call was donkish but then he slowplayed trips all the way and got maximum money out of you.

Hand 3: You gave him odds to call all the way - $.20 into a $1 pot is not a good bet. $.50 into a $1.40 pot is not a good bet.

I have also struggled with this but you have to make these guys pay for their stupid plays. Hand 3 if you had bet say $.80 he wouldn't have had the right odds to call - then he's making a stupid play. On the river if you bet $1.20 into a $1.50 pot again, he doesn't have the right odds. I'm still working on these exact numbers and pulling them out of my ass quickly but I know these bets are the wrong size.

Maybe there were other hands I didn't see but these three I thought were totally fine and you got beat by not betting properly.

Wonderland,
I know you're frustrated. I read the entire thread, stopping to look through the hands.

1. Good job trying to adjust.

2. Your adjustment went the wrong direction.

If you're consistently getting sucked out on the later streets, and consistently getting your money in good preflop and on the flop, you need to correct by BETTING MORE on those two streets.

Your adjustment just made you weak tight which turned you into an ATM for stations. Consider betting 5x or 6x preflop, and PSB+ every flop you connect with. If they won't fold, make them pay a premium to chase. Get more aggressive early and put more chips in, if they'll call.

Here's a rant I posted a few months back when several folks posted similar threads to this one.

Rant: Ungentle Advice Contained Herein - Reader Beware

Good luck finding your way back to equilibrium. Sessions like that one can really screw with your game, your head and your ABC poker skills.

thanks so much Robb, oh and i need to get back to you about equity, sorry about that, i do appreciate you putting the time in.

I'll read that article.

Yeah you guys are right, bet sizing. If ever i did bet small it was just because i didn't want to end up shoving by the river when i only had TPTK, i only shove when i have a total monster. Betting huge can leave me stackless if i make a mistake, but then it did anyway.

Sounds like you have the wrong mindset for the game. You shouldn't alter your betting because "it's one of those nights". There is no such thing. Luck is not an entity that follows you around. Spoon's right, make the most +EV plays and you profit.

One of the better things I've gotten out of video sites is this, the pros don't care when they get bad beat. They sometimes laugh at the goofiness of the suckout, are sometimes a little amused by the other guy's call. But they never get mad, or bitch about their luck. The first thing they say is about how they're happy they made the right play.

AEJones had a really cool way of looking at it in one video. He 3-bet a guy preflop in position with QJ or something and got called. He ends up stacking off and loses because the other guy called with something dumb like second pair and sucked out on the river. AEJones said something to the effect of, "I don't care that he sucked out, because I made a shitload of money there. If he's calling off his stack when he's that much of a dog to the bottom of my range, equity-wise I made a lot of money. And in the long run, the equity pays."

These guys only think about the equity, because they truly understand how the game doesn't go from the start of your session to the end, or the start of the month to the end of the month. They have totally removed results oriented thinking from there game and understand they have to be happy with their decisions and not their results. If they have a bad session, they walk away knowing making the right most +EV decisions will pay off in the long run.



Cliffnotes:

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

Step 1: Put Villain on a range
Step 2: Make +EV decisions based on that range
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit

I like how that's put. Sounds almost Jedi like

The Tao of Poker.

Someone should write it.

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

What the fuck are you talking about?

I honestly prefer this.... I think would sell more copies...

Originally Posted by sarbox68

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

What the fuck are you talking about?

I honestly prefer this.... I think would sell more copies...

My previous book was "How to Really Suck at Poker".

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

My previous book was "How to Really Suck at Poker".

Chapter 2 imo:

Originally Posted by wonderland

oh you know what, fuck it then.

OK. I dont think this is a proper place to post all these but I just wanted to express my feelings. I have been playing for a few months but i have understood how idiot people can be.

We are playing the final table in a torunament with 10K play money buy in (I thought they would play it more seriously).

I had pocket K and i raised it 3 times the big blind. One had short stack and went all-in the other guy had the same amt of chips with me and he called.

2d-4s-2h on the flop and he bet very small and i thought he had a weak hand and I went all in. He called with Qs-Js. MAN!!!! And he hit two more J on the river and i got eliminated. The most weird bet i have ever seen. I dont know what to do now. I think i am going to play with real money to avoid such crazy bets!!!

Originally Posted by Extremophile

OK. I dont think this is a proper place to post all these but I just wanted to express my feelings. I have been playing for a few months but i have understood how idiot people can be.

We are playing the final table in a torunament with 10K play money buy in (I thought they would play it more seriously).

I had pocket K and i raised it 3 times the big blind. One had short stack and went all-in the other guy had the same amt of chips with me and he called.

2d-4s-2h on the flop and he bet very small and i thought he had a weak hand and I went all in. He called with Qs-Js. MAN!!!! And he hit two more J on the river and i got eliminated. The most weird bet i have ever seen. I dont know what to do now. I think i am going to play with real money to avoid such crazy bets!!!

You need to do some reading. You should be incredibly happy he did that "crazy" bet. Also you won't avoid crazy bets when you play for real money. It still happens. But it's a good thing obviously.

Originally Posted by Extremophile

OK. I dont think this is a proper place to post all these but I just wanted to express my feelings. I have been playing for a few months but i have understood how idiot people can be.

We are playing the final table in a torunament with 10K play money buy in (I thought they would play it more seriously).

I had pocket K and i raised it 3 times the big blind. One had short stack and went all-in the other guy had the same amt of chips with me and he called.

2d-4s-2h on the flop and he bet very small and i thought he had a weak hand and I went all in. He called with Qs-Js. MAN!!!! And he hit two more J on the river and i got eliminated. The most weird bet i have ever seen. I dont know what to do now. I think i am going to play with real money to avoid such crazy bets!!!

It's pretty crazy that he hit two jacks on the river.

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

Originally Posted by Extremophile

OK. I dont think this is a proper place to post all these but I just wanted to express my feelings. I have been playing for a few months but i have understood how idiot people can be.

We are playing the final table in a torunament with 10K play money buy in (I thought they would play it more seriously).

I had pocket K and i raised it 3 times the big blind. One had short stack and went all-in the other guy had the same amt of chips with me and he called.

2d-4s-2h on the flop and he bet very small and i thought he had a weak hand and I went all in. He called with Qs-Js. MAN!!!! And he hit two more J on the river and i got eliminated. The most weird bet i have ever seen. I dont know what to do now. I think i am going to play with real money to avoid such crazy bets!!!

It's pretty crazy that he hit two jacks on the river.

I hit two jacks on the river once...

wait for it...






I was in a canoe.

Originally Posted by Monty3038

I was in a canoe.

Please, mods, stick a fork in this one. It's dead.

Originally Posted by Monty3038

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

Originally Posted by Extremophile

OK. I dont think this is a proper place to post all these but I just wanted to express my feelings. I have been playing for a few months but i have understood how idiot people can be.

We are playing the final table in a torunament with 10K play money buy in (I thought they would play it more seriously).

I had pocket K and i raised it 3 times the big blind. One had short stack and went all-in the other guy had the same amt of chips with me and he called.

2d-4s-2h on the flop and he bet very small and i thought he had a weak hand and I went all in. He called with Qs-Js. MAN!!!! And he hit two more J on the river and i got eliminated. The most weird bet i have ever seen. I dont know what to do now. I think i am going to play with real money to avoid such crazy bets!!!

It's pretty crazy that he hit two jacks on the river.

I hit two jacks on the river once...

wait for it...






I was in a canoe.

Oh snap.

Thanks for the comments. Real money worked better. I made the final table of the 1.00+0.10 $ buy-in tournament with 2226 entrants. Man it was 6 hours of play and I got tired in the end. Good luck!

ok I agree, let's move on to new threads. No more canoes.

{locked}