AA preflop, multi-way with a shortie

Quiz question: What size should your 4-bet be here? Or, maybe a better question, what size shouldn't it be?

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $269
UTG+1: $243.25
CO: $199
Button: $283.90
SB: $75.40
BB: $209.70

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with A A
Hero raises to $8, UTG+1 raises to $17, 2 folds, SB calls, BB folds, Hero raises to ???

~50 since that's pot
or
make it 76 to go

Originally Posted by AHiltz

~50 since that's pot

Stacks are important here.

I pot and push any flop.

Originally Posted by AHiltz

~50 since that's pot
or
make it 76 to go

isn't 50 bad b/c if shorty goes allin we can't raise any more?

kfine. Now what?

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $269
UTG+1: $243.25
CO: $199
Button: $283.90
SB: $75.40
BB: $209.70

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with A A
Hero raises to $8, UTG+1 raises to $17, 2 folds, SB calls, BB folds, Hero raises to $58, UTG+1 calls, SB raises all-in $75.4, Hero ???

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

isn't 50 bad b/c if shorty goes allin we can't raise any more?

I might even push. It kind of looks like you are trying to isolate with shortie which might open up UTG+1s calling range a bit. Shorties probably calling a push anyway even if UTG+1 folds.

IMO a raise that isnt a push looks like aces. then again a push kinda does too.

Would a push be better to get one caller plus the shortie who could have anything. Would you not want to thin this field to give your AA a chance. I thought that too many callers against AA was bad.

I re-pop it to only $40ish or so. I like giving the SB room to hang himself and for others to re-open the action.

I'm not sure you're allowed to do anything but call (or fold the nuts) in the second case.

Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms

Would a push be better to get one caller plus the shortie who could have anything. Would you not want to thin this field to give your AA a chance. I thought that too many callers against AA was bad.

2 callers isnt too many. Especially when one of them is so short that hes committed to any flop if you make pretty much any decent raise.

AA is the best multi-way hand in hold'em.

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

isn't 50 bad b/c if shorty goes allin we can't raise any more?

I figure UTG+1 was coming along if he hadn't been given time to think.

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with A A
Hero raises to $8, UTG+1 raises to $17, 2 folds, SB calls, BB folds, Hero raises to $58, UTG+1 calls, SB raises all-in $75.4, Hero...OMG I CAN'T RAISE!!!..calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: T J 4 ($228.2, 2 players + 1 all-in - Main pot: $228.2)
Hero is all-in $193.6, UTG+1 folds.
Uncalled bets: $193.6 returned to Hero.

Turn: 8 ($228.2, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $228.2)


River: 5 ($228.2, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $228.2)


Results:
Final pot: $228.2
Hero showed Ac Ah
SB showed Ad 3h

Originally Posted by Warpe

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

isn't 50 bad b/c if shorty goes allin we can't raise any more?

I figure UTG+1 was coming along if he hadn't been given time to think.

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with A A
Hero raises to $8, UTG+1 raises to $17, 2 folds, SB calls, BB folds, Hero raises to $58, UTG+1 calls, SB raises all-in $75.4, Hero...OMG I CAN'T RAISE!!!..calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: T J 4 ($228.2, 2 players + 1 all-in - Main pot: $228.2)
Hero is all-in $193.6, UTG+1 folds.
Uncalled bets: $193.6 returned to Hero.

Turn: 8 ($228.2, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $228.2)


River: 5 ($228.2, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $228.2)


Results:
Final pot: $228.2
Hero showed Ac Ah
SB showed Ad 3h

I think you played it well here. I'm very happy to just call preflop like you did. Already, villain is getting terrible odds to outflop you. If you think villain will call an all in preflop, then of course that is the correct move, it just depends on how you think you can get villains money in in that particular situation.

I love these hands. Thank goodness for donk shorties.

Originally Posted by dpe8598

I'm very happy to just call preflop like you did. Already, villain is getting terrible odds to outflop you. If you think villain will call an all in preflop, then of course that is the correct move, it just depends on how you think you can get villains money in in that particular situation.

I didn't have a choice. I would have preferred to push while UTG+1 was still pounding the call button.

Originally Posted by dpe8598

Thank goodness for donk shorties.

QFT

You cannot be worried about not be able to re-raise on the shorties push because he may not push. I think we need to almost ignore the short stack and play against the important villain raising us. Take away his odds to call and hit a set on the flop by betting at least 1/8 of their stack - I suggest 1/5th. So $50. Which also happens to be potting it.

I say ignore the shorty because if we pot it here, the shorty will be more inclined to play with us by seeing a flop, rather than investing his whole stack preflop. Remember, shorty did not push preflop after the re-raise, so he can't be THAT confident about his hand... so let's try to lure him along with a smaller than his stack bet. Besides, if he calls another $33, he'll get it all in on the flop.

Also, you don't want to bet too little because now you give shorty a chance to fold the flop and the major villain a chance to flop a set for cheap against an obvious AA/KK.

Originally Posted by Fnord

AA is the best multi-way hand in hold'em.

pretty important here imo especially when you consider you arent getting more than 2 callers

In these situations which come up now and again, reraise just less then half shorties stack, so you can re-open the action. In this case reraise to $37. When shorty goes AI, reraise to 120 or so, then hopefully UTG calls, then bet half his stack say $60 on any flop and obv call a push.

i make a standard pot raise, and don't mind seeing a flop vs the normal stack