Is 3x the BB really a standard raise??

When you guy play your suited connectors in late position, you would like to keep as many people in the pot after you raise so you create odds for drawing. Players yet to act don't think that a 3x bb raise from you is not so standard, and they are inclined to fold most of the time. Would a 2x bb raise then be appropriate to get players into the preflop??? I feel that a 2x bb raise is kinda weak though, and I don't like to do it but how else are you going to keep players in the pot if you don't? Suggestions??

When I'm playing suited connectors in late position, I want it to be for a raise, and I want to take the pot down preflop. Fail that, I want it to be heads up with me acting last where I take the pot down with a c-bet. I don't like f'ing around.

I just pot it preflop. Gets the job done and it isn't readable.

Im with lukie, I think keeping ppl in is more suited to Limit, but in NL if its only me and villan, I have a FAR better chance of winning the hand .

Your not playing it for multi-way value when you raise, but to desguise your hand, mix you play, possibly stack, easily get away from post flop etc etc.

3x bb isn't the standard raise in a cash game. Thats only in tournaments.


In a cash game the "standard" raise is pot, or 3.5x the bb plus 1x for each limper.

Originally Posted by Renton

3x bb isn't the standard raise in a cash game. Thats only in tournaments.


In a cash game the "standard" raise is pot, or 3.5x the bb plus 1x for each limper.

This is how I play and I think it's a very good rule.

Originally Posted by SinkRox

Im with lukie, I think keeping ppl in is more suited to Limit, but in NL if its only me and villan, I have a FAR better chance of winning the hand

While I agree, the other reasoning is that if you do hit a big hand on your sc or gapper, you want more people in who might have hit something to pay you off. I think both reasonings have merit.

Originally Posted by jackvance

Originally Posted by SinkRox

Im with lukie, I think keeping ppl in is more suited to Limit, but in NL if its only me and villan, I have a FAR better chance of winning the hand

While I agree, the other reasoning is that if you do hit a big hand on your sc or gapper, you want more people in who might have hit something to pay you off. I think both reasonings have merit.

Yeh, But the only thing is you far more often hit a nice draw than you do a nice hand (trips or fh) and I just prefer to be HU playing a drawing hand in NL.

Originally Posted by jackvance

Originally Posted by SinkRox

Im with lukie, I think keeping ppl in is more suited to Limit, but in NL if its only me and villan, I have a FAR better chance of winning the hand

While I agree, the other reasoning is that if you do hit a big hand on your sc or gapper, you want more people in who might have hit something to pay you off. I think both reasonings have merit.

Yeah, when you get your miracle flop of 568 when you hold 79s, you want to make sure somebody also catches their flop with pocket 8's so they can pay you off!

Originally Posted by Lukie

Originally Posted by jackvance

Originally Posted by SinkRox

Im with lukie, I think keeping ppl in is more suited to Limit, but in NL if its only me and villan, I have a FAR better chance of winning the hand

While I agree, the other reasoning is that if you do hit a big hand on your sc or gapper, you want more people in who might have hit something to pay you off. I think both reasonings have merit.

Yeah, when you get your miracle flop of 568 when you hold 79s, you want to make sure somebody also catches their flop with pocket 8's so they can pay you off!

What are the odds of hitting a 7 9 sc or something similar on the flop?
hitting trips is 8 to 1

Anyone know the odds?

I just do 4 + 1 for ever 2 limpers.

I'd say standard raise at NL25 at least is 4xBB(I learned the hard way .75 preflop isn't always the best way to play).

And of course 1BB for every limper;standard reraise is 3x the raise + the raise for every cold caller.

Originally Posted by CrackedMonkey

What are the odds of hitting a 7 9 sc or something similar on the flop?
hitting trips is 8 to 1

Anyone know the odds?

79 would be a sg (suited gapper) not sc.. .. but anyway, I ran the math on this a month ago. Let's see if I can remember.

A sc not too close to the edge (45s and up) will flop big 5% of the time, big being 2 pair, trips, straight, flush, boat, quads, straight flush. 10% of the time you'll hit a straight draw, 10% a flush draw.

The only difference between a sg and a sc is that the odds to hit a straight with a sg are a little less. Compare 89 and 79, and you can see that with 3 board cards, we can fit 4 straights around 89, while only 3 straights around 79. In practical terms, the 5% to flop big is decreased a little, but this is neglectible.. and the odds to flop a straight draw are decreased from 1/10 to 1/12. This counts for sg 53s and up.

So
SC flop 2p+ 1/20, straight draw 1/10, flush draw 1/10
SG flop 2p+ 1/20, straight draw 1/12, flush draw 1/10.

Or with the other terminology

SC flop 2p+ is 19:1, straight draw 9:1, flush draw 9:1
SG flop 2p+ is 19:1, straight draw 11:1, flush draw 9:1

Ed solved this problem IMHO.

For what it's worth, I think the original poster is thinking too much about showing down the best hand.

Nothing in NL Texas Hold'em is standard.

I would much rather limp SC because I have no showdown value unless I have a big hand, which isn't very often. Get your SC and PP in for cheap, and let expected value take over.

If you are going to raise SC and low PP, do it in LP and try to minimize your flopping opponents because you'll want to pick up the pot with a c-bet. If you are called, play your missed PP and SC like a missed AK. If you have a draw with your SC, play the player.