Quote Originally Posted by zook
Vi-Zero - re: your last post... I don't know any villains who will call 3-bets as loosely as the ranges you entered in the first half of your post. Plz provide sn's
I know at least one villan... but that SN is for me

with a tighter 3bet range:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

106,162,848 games 0.005 secs 21,232,569,600 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 46.768% 46.47% 00.29% 49338786 311121.00 { 8d8h }
Hand 1: 53.232% 52.94% 00.29% 56201820 311121.00 { QQ-TT, AQs+, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, AQo+ }


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This isn't too unrealistic, nor is our equity in this spot. When you consider we will probably win the pot preflop anywhere from 1/2 to 3/4 of the time, we are definitely +EV to 3bet 8-8.


And A-Qs!

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

89,039,808 games 0.005 secs 17,807,961,600 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 47.347% 38.98% 08.37% 34709697 7448212.50 { AhQh }
Hand 1: 52.653% 44.29% 08.37% 39433686 7448212.50 { QQ-TT, AQs+, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, AQo+ }


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Quote Originally Posted by griffey24
Why are you re-raising AQ if you are afraid to play it hard when you hit your ace?

Well, mostly b/c my postflop skills aren't not so great yet, and this spot seemed marginal
I will add that if the board in hand one where i advocated a c/f on the turn had some more draws on board i would probably 2/3-3/4 turn and then obviously call a push. I originally selected a very dry board to clearly illustrate the point i was trying to make in my OP.



When is it no longer +EV to 3bet hands like 8-8/A-Qs?


Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

226,024,128 games 0.005 secs 45,204,825,600 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 34.895% 21.81% 13.09% 49288404 29582358.00 { AQs }
Hand 1: 65.105% 52.02% 13.09% 117571008 29582358.00 { QQ+, AQs+, AQo+ }


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85,615,200 games 0.005 secs 17,123,040,000 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 41.847% 41.66% 00.19% 35667146 160000.00 { 8d8h }
Hand 1: 58.153% 57.97% 00.19% 49628054 160000.00 { QQ+, AQs+, AQo+ }


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About the time villan stops trying to hit high implied odds hands like SC's and starts to slowplay K-K/A-A (equity slightly improves when some SC's are added - 2%)


Keep the feedback coming plz! This has been a really helpful post for me, mostly to start thinking about these questions in depth.