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 Originally Posted by iopq
Originally Posted by mcatdog
Originally Posted by iopq
I looked at the FTP tables and I see 44, 45, bunch of 36 or 37 tables. I make more than 3.5/100 for sure running 14/10/3.5 or something
it's not preflop skills that matter, it's post- flop
This is wrong, pre- flop skills are the most important by far, it's just that past a certain level everyone has them so you need to not suck post- flop to beat the games. Tables like the ones you mentioned can be crushed by just playing tight and not making huge pre- flop mistakes.
The idea that pre- flop skills " don't matter" is hysterical.
I mean there is no difference between running 17/13 preflop stats or 12/7
Your winrate is fully dependent on your hand reading after that point
Sure, you can be a 2 ptBB winner by simply playing tight
But to be CRUSHING those stakes you need to be able to read your opponents like a book
I don't mean "you can play 80/3 and still be a winner" I mean the greatest contribution to your winrate is your post-flop ability
I've put the parts I very much disagree with above in bold, while the parts that I only slightly disagree with are in italics. I don't think any of this is worth debate, so I won't debate it.
Originally Posted by iopq
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Originally Posted by iopq
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
We don't get bored because we lay the responsibility of getting a higher win-rate on our own shoulders instead of those of our opponents. Table selection is one thing, but running away from a game because people don't hand you money is a bad excuse for running away.
I'd say it's a great excuse to run away. If I am not sufficiently good, then there's no way I am going to beat it for a good rate.
OK, so say there's a game that a professional can beat for 3.5ptBB/100.
but you can't beat it because you're not that good
but say there's another game that YOU can beat for 5ptBB/100
which one do you play?
You're making the point that you should generally play in games you can beat and avoid games you cannot beat, which has nothing to do with the subject at hand.
I said to Chopper, "Running away from a game because people don't hand you money is a bad excuse for running away." I wasn't suggesting that running away because you aren't a winning player in the game was a bad thing to do.
Let's suppose in some hypothetical fantasy scenario that Chopper sucks at full ring no-limit hold'em and cannot make minimum wage at any game full ring no-limit hold'em game. Then he would benefit more from improving himself at full ring no-limit hold'em than he would from spending time seeking out people who suck slightly worse than he does.
In a more general sense, everyone complains about the NLHE games getting/being tougher. The current response tends to be people uninterested in the game. The proper response should be that people become concerned with getting better faster than the average player.
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