3 barreling unknown

so are we shoving A7 here for value?

Originally Posted by kmind

so are we shoving A7 here for value?

At first i was all liek

nooooooooooooooooo

but then i was like...well maybe

but now im like...um, i think we probably can, ya alright.

Originally Posted by kmind

so are we shoving A7 here for value?

Shoving $3.50 into a $3.07 pot? I'd only take that line against a complete station.

Originally Posted by HoopyDude

Shoving $3.50 into a $3.07 pot? I'd only take that line against a complete station.

get my point though? Everyone saying that river is a clear c/f needs to realize that should mean we are much more inclined to have a wider value range including if we shove

Originally Posted by kmind

get my point though? Everyone saying that river is a clear c/f needs to realize that should mean we are much more inclined to have a wider value range including if we shove

Please explain this in a painfully simple way.

Originally Posted by kmind

get my point though? Everyone saying that river is a clear c/f needs to realize that should mean we are much more inclined to have a wider value range including if we shove

Think I get what you mean, bluffing against a guy who will call a large % of the time is -EV, but conversely we can bet a wide range for value and get a call from weaker hands since he's not folding.

So if shoving air here is -EV, shoving a good Ax should be +EV.

Originally Posted by kmind

so are we shoving A7 here for value?

kmind, you make some valid points in this thread obv, but could you kindly explain wtf you're talking about?

Board: Ah 5c 4s Js 8h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 37.500% 34.62% 02.88% 36 3.00 { Ac7d }
Hand 1: 62.500% 59.62% 02.88% 62 3.00 { JJ, 55-44, AQs-A2s, KJs, 76s, 54s, AQo-A2o, KJo }

as you can see, i even threw all 12 combos of KJ in there as villain c/c'ing a shove with and we still don't have NEARLY enough value against his calling range to vbet A7. so it is both possible and ABSOLUTELY the case here that it is both the case that it is awful to shove QTs as a bluff AND that it is bad to value bet anything worse than AT like everyone has been saying.