2NL on stars bad shove vs total moran whale

So going along with my OP I am trying to post a hand every day or so. Hopefully more will be more interesting than this one which was my biggest loss in last night's session.


Villain was a 78/34/12 who just bet the shit out of any board with any two cards and always had the most retardedly large bet sizing regardless of what he was holding.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($4.19)
CO ($4)
Button ($2.46)
SB ($2.20)
BB ($17.06)
Hero (UTG) ($4.32)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q, K
Hero bets $0.10, 1 fold, CO calls $0.10, Button calls $0.10, 1 fold, BB calls $0.08

So what does he do this with on the flop? Obviously any 7,3, or 5. Spade draws (discounted cause of my two spades.), any PP 33-99 imo, tons of other random junk like Ax, and he's definitely capable of holding 64 here. His range is so huge though that I'll rough it in stove and I come out with 51% equity. I'd put his calling range as probably all of the above except no 3x hands and a few less total air hands.

Flop: ($0.41) 7, 3, 5 (4 players)
BB bets $0.42, Hero raises to $1.20, 2 folds, BB calls $0.78

He bets a total wtf amount and I opt to shove since I'm still at around 35-45% equity with my two overs and I am clearly repping a large hand not that he even knows what a large hand is so maybe I should just be flatting here since he is actually offering me pot odds which is pretty lol.

Turn: ($2.81) 9 (2 players)
BB bets $0.54, Hero raises to $3.02 (All-In), BB calls $2.48

River: ($8.85) 3 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $8.85 | Rake: $0.40

Anyway, hand isn't very exciting. I think flatting the turn is better since against this moron I'm probably getting paid even with the FD on the board if I do hit and I am getting the correct odds to just call even with one card to come.

"Spade draws (discounted cause of my two spades.)"

Wait, you're saying he can't have a spade draw because you have one? I don't understand this statement.

Big semi-bluffs are for opponents with a fold button.

i'm thinking only calling behind this opponent is probably best. after he calls flop raise you know he's not going anywhere now.

the shove was definitely a standard move, i just don't think it's a good one against people who play like this. His range is probably A3+, and suited spades, and probably any other 7x, 3x, 5x hand
I dunno, I hate these spots and it seems as of lately I have ran into a bunch of them. Honestly I can't even beat Q9o with AA. And I'm being dead honest. the suck out rate right now has got to be around 90%.

I'm almost apt to say that when getting to this spot, folding when missing the flop is probably best.
or calling one street and definitely folding when missing the turn.

Originally Posted by DJJunkPauds

"Spade draws (discounted cause of my two spades.)"

Wait, you're saying he can't have a spade draw because you have one? I don't understand this statement.

Big semi-bluffs are for opponents with a fold button.

Not at all. I'm just stating that there are less combinations of spade draws since I hold two of the remaining 11 spades. That's all that discounted means in this context.

Originally Posted by DJJunkPauds

Big semi-bluffs are for opponents with a fold button.

+1

Definitely flat turn, your flop raise pretty much got you a free card, and is this guy really ever folding? get value from him AFTER you make a hand.

Originally Posted by Santo2True

Honestly I can't even beat Q9o with AA. And I'm being dead honest. the suck out rate right now has got to be around 90%.

So why aren't you folding AA preflop when your equity is 10%? Try and narrow down your starting hand to ones that have 90% equity vs your villains range like Q9o

I like calling the flop, encouraging overcalls.

The turn is really bad because you have no fold equity and he gave you good enough odds that a call is guaranteed +EV.

Originally Posted by Donachello

Not at all. I'm just stating that there are less combinations of spade draws since I hold two of the remaining 11 spades. That's all that discounted means in this context.

Ah, right.

Originally Posted by tyrn

So why aren't you folding AA preflop when your equity is 10%? Try and narrow down your starting hand to ones that have 90% equity vs your villains range like Q9o

i'm confused by what you mean... villains range in these situations is {any 2 card+} lol
what am i supposed to be aggressive with? I have tightened up my PF game big time and have learned alot on here about c-betting and how to gain value and pot odds and has made a huge difference in my game. However, at micro stakes it just seems lately like this stuff doesn't count for anything against these fish.

Originally Posted by DJJunkPauds

Big semi-bluffs are for opponents with a fold button.

-1

agree that this turn is a flat though. i'd raise flop if it were HU, but when it's 3way A) we have more implied odds in calling and B)we have slightly less FE.

Originally Posted by Santo2True

i'm confused by what you mean... villains range in these situations is {any 2 card+} lol
what am i supposed to be aggressive with? I have tightened up my PF game big time and have learned alot on here about c-betting and how to gain value and pot odds and has made a huge difference in my game. However, at micro stakes it just seems lately like this stuff doesn't count for anything against these fish.

It gets 20 or 30 times worse.

Originally Posted by surviva316

-1.

Err, so it's fine to rely on fold equity when there is none?

Originally Posted by DJJunkPauds

Big semi-bluffs are for opponents with a fold button.

if we are LITERALLY talking about a villain who LITERALLY doesn't have a fold button, then we should never do anything that can be defined as a bluff. of course if we're playing this villain, then we can do some pretty ridiculous stuff like open shoving A-high on most flops and crap like that. i have never in my life played this type of player, but i've heard stories of players literally never folding...literally. i have played a bunch of players like villain described, though, (just based on his preflop stats, he folds 24% of the time without even putting any money at all into the pot) and this guy folds at least some of the time.

described villain seems like the type to let far too many pots get out of control big with air, so spots where we have the opportunity to shove with a butt ton of outs when it's less than likely that he has a good hand aren't uncommon against described villain.

it just so happens that villain prolly has something here, and shoving is unnecessary any to play the hand in a profitable manner, so this just isn't one of those spots.

i typed this very quickly, and i'm like half asleep btw, so i reserve the right to revise anything i said because i don't feel like rereading this post :P

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

The turn is really bad because you have no fold equity and he gave you good enough odds that a call is guaranteed +EV.

this

Call flop and turn - we have decent implied odds vs this guy who's unlikely to fold anything that's beating us (a pair) hence making bluffing unprofitable.

Originally Posted by HoopyDude

Call flop and turn - we have decent implied odds vs this guy who's unlikely to fold anything that's beating us (a pair) hence making bluffing unprofitable.

calling with 2 overs and the second nut flush draw is a little to passive

Originally Posted by surviva316

if we are LITERALLY talking about a villain who LITERALLY doesn't have a fold button, then we should never do anything that can be defined as a bluff. of course if we're playing this villain, then we can do some pretty ridiculous stuff like open shoving A-high on most flops and crap like that. i have never in my life played this type of player, but i've heard stories of players literally never folding...literally. i have played a bunch of players like villain described, though, (just based on his preflop stats, he folds 24% of the time without even putting any money at all into the pot) and this guy folds at least some of the time.

described villain seems like the type to let far too many pots get out of control big with air, so spots where we have the opportunity to shove with a butt ton of outs when it's less than likely that he has a good hand aren't uncommon against described villain.

it just so happens that villain prolly has something here, and shoving is unnecessary any to play the hand in a profitable manner, so this just isn't one of those spots.

i typed this very quickly, and i'm like half asleep btw, so i reserve the right to revise anything i said because i don't feel like rereading this post :P

no but i bet you have ran into the following player. He will call a flop bet or raise with any pair any dray any 2 overs and any ace and sometimes even backdoor draws if he's feeling lucky