13,000 hand check up

How do you copy PT stats on here???
Anyways, I'm at 13,000 hands for 10NL and i have a 12.11 bb/100.
I'm running at 18.5/6.5/2.
Is this decent?

you need a screen capture program

yes, you are officially killing the game, imo. i think most solid players can get in the neighborhood of 10, but anything over that, and you should be proud...and look at moving up, depending on your goals.

as for copying stats, i'm not your man there.

Press print screen, open up paint (start > programs > accessories > paint), then hit edit paste. Then crop/save/whatever.



Also, play another 13000 hands. 13000 is meaningless now. 20k is the new 10k.

Yea 13K is a small sample size but I got a new pc recently and lost all of my previous data. I had roughly 16,000 hands in the database before my new pc and I was running at about 11.50/bb.

Originally Posted by euphoricism

Press print screen, open up paint (start > programs > accessories > paint), then hit edit paste. Then crop/save/whatever.

Thanks

Originally Posted by Chopper

yes, you are officially killing the game, imo. i think most solid players can get in the neighborhood of 10, but anything over that, and you should be proud...and look at moving up, depending on your goals. :

Thanks Bro. My BR is currently around $820 and have only taken a few shots at 25NL bascially breaking even or maybe a little up. I like to multi-table six at a time because it keeps me patient regarding good hand selection and just the though of having $150 out there at time is a little scary. In good time.

post position stats tab

Originally Posted by Triptanes

post position stats tab

Will tonight, at work right now.

Your winrate is impressive, I'd just quit my job.

Originally Posted by Triptanes

post position stats tab

^^Agreed^^, also is this FR or 6max?

That's the goal in the long run. One step at a time.

This is just FR.

Originally Posted by Pythonic

Originally Posted by Chopper

yes, you are officially killing the game, imo. i think most solid players can get in the neighborhood of 10, but anything over that, and you should be proud...and look at moving up, depending on your goals. :

Thanks Bro. My BR is currently around $820 and have only taken a few shots at 25NL bascially breaking even or maybe a little up. I like to multi-table six at a time because it keeps me patient regarding good hand selection and just the though of having $150 out there at time is a little scary. In good time.

personally, i like to open enough tables to keep me patient, too. but, when you move up, it can get boring quickly. nut-camping, albeit still very profitable at 25, 50, and 100, can be frustrating the higher you go. you just dont get the action you used to get when money "meant nothing."

because of that, your winrate will suffer, if you dont open up a bit, imo. use position...and AGGRESSION. more than you do at 10NL. people, from what i've read, can achieve a 8+/100 rather easily with discipline, but i must suck...i was never over 6 before the US regs, and haven't been to 5 after the regs...yet.

remember, if you're tight (like me), the fact that $150 out at the same time...should not scare you. what are the odds you will get AA cracked 6 times, in the same session, on separate tables? not likely. and thats about what it will take to lose all $150 of it in one day. you may lose 2 buy-ins, but it's prolly rare to lose more in a day...if you are a tighty. more likely, you will get stacked on one table, and double up on another.

do like bigspenda says, and take shots at 25 until comfortable...if you drop below $300 (30 BIs for 10NL), then drop back down. if it were me, i'd maybe use $400, but his idea is very solid. it would take a lot to get back to $300 from $800...$25 at a time, ya know?

you'll get used to it.

Chopper, what level do you play? Only 5/bb?

I don´t think u need to open up significantly, as long as your comfortable with your game. try to close the gap between vpip and pfr a bit. keep limping, call less, raise more IP.

And please do not discuss winrates. i suppose most people here are not even close to the number of hands necessary to say anything about bb/100. This is no offense, even 50k hands might show tendencies, but no true winrate.

Originally Posted by Pythonic

Chopper, what level do you play? Only 5/bb?

I dont want to discuss winrates either because its just e-penis waving. But I will say that if you expect to keep up 10bb/100 long term you will become very, very, very frustrated with your game.

Aim for 3bb/100 long term. Be content there. I know it sounds low because you're running 12, but seriously. If you do better than 3bb/100 at a given stake you should be very content. It is an enormously small percentage of the poker population that even gets to that point.

3b/100 at what limit? I'm not being cocky at all, I just want to know how am I doing so far.

Any level. Even 10NL.

Originally Posted by Pythonic

Chopper, what level do you play? Only 5/bb?

i only play 25NL right now.

i think winrates ARE absolutely worth mentioning/discussing. i also think they are a bit overrated/"mine's bigger than yours," too. let me explain:

winrates are for credibility. they let someone know whether they can beat a game or not. if you run 10+/100 over 10k hands, i feel its safer to say you are not...just on a heater. 10k is not much to base "true win rate" on, that is true, but 10k IS enough to get an idea of whether or not you are better than your competition.

winrates are also for credibility when responding to a thread, provided they are HONEST. anyone can say, "I run 12/100 over 50k hands," so, i guess they must be taken with a grain of salt. but, there are some guys in here that post VERY solid advice, and i like to know where THEY stand.

i dont agree that 20k is the "new 10k." what changed in the world of poker? i do agree that 20k is BETTER than 10k, but 10k is a fine starting point...you get an upswing and a downswing in there most times, and by 20k, yes, it changes more, but if you run a 5+ over 10k hands, it doesnt go negative all of a sudden by the time you reach 20k.

i am not saying that the numbers we post are TRUE win rates...but c'mon. they do give you a clue. and when questioned, if honest, they do give credibility to a poster/responder.

besides, most of the newer players want/need to know what means they are "good at poker." so, i doubt the "winrate discussions" will ever stop. complaining about their "true validity" just encourages the "e-penis waving" and makes the complainer look bitchy...even if his is bigger.

if you run 10+/100 over 10k hands, i feel its safer to say you are not...just on a heater.

And I say youre very wrong. 10+ over 10k hands is DEFINITELY a heater.

but 10k IS enough to get an idea of whether or not you are better than your competition.

Its enough to say you didnt lose over the last 10k hands. Thats about it. It assures nothing about the next 10k hands. Past gains are absolutely no guarantee of future gains.

i dont agree that 20k is the "new 10k." what changed in the world of poker?

Our understanding of how useless discussing our winrates is. Theyre just well, completely useless measures. The poker world would be so much better off if Pat had never coded that fucking feature. You need several hundred thousand hands at ONE stake against the SAME opponents to be meaningful. And even then youve changed since hand 1 to hand 700,000 or so.

10k break even stretches are COMMON AS HELL. I just came off one yesterday. Over my last 12,000 hands, I'd lost 3 buyins total. By your reasoning this would mean that I'm probably a slightly losing, breakevenish player.

But yesterday I won 6.5 buyins in about 1200 hands.

And if 10k breakeven stretches are common, then 10k heaters are common, and 10k coolers are common too.

let me restate: I'm not saying a 10k checkup is useless. I'm saying discussing your winrate over that 10k is useless.

A 10k checkup has value because things like your VPIP/PFR/ how often you cold call, your vpip according to position, etc etc aren't going to change too much from 10k to 10k.

But your results (winrate) certainly will.

Originally Posted by Chopper

Originally Posted by Pythonic

Chopper, what level do you play? Only 5/bb?

winrates are for credibility. they let someone know whether they can beat a game or not. if you run 10+/100 over 10k hands, i feel its safer to say you are not...just on a heater. 10k is not much to base "true win rate" on, that is true, but 10k IS enough to get an idea of whether or not you are better than your competition.

Chopper, my winrate for my total 29,000 hands played is 11.80. Can a heater last that long?

Yes. But I have no doubt youre a good player. Move up, youre costing yourself money by playing that low.

Will post my PT stats tonight when i get home, needed to find out how to do it. Do you play FR or 6max?

Frankly, a monkey with downs will beat 10NL at a good clip. As long as youre not losing, and you can afford it, move up.

Agreed

Originally Posted by Pythonic

Will post my PT stats tonight when i get home, needed to find out how to do it. Do you play FR or 6max?

Both. As well as LHE. Specialization is for insects.

Originally Posted by euphoricism

let me restate: I'm not saying a 10k checkup is useless. I'm saying discussing your winrate over that 10k is useless.

A 10k checkup has value because things like your VPIP/PFR/ how often you cold call, your vpip according to position, etc etc aren't going to change too much from 10k to 10k.

But your results (winrate) certainly will.

if you read my response...thats basically all i'm saying, too. its a "trend measure." i was trying to say its not gospel. i guess i may put more stock in it than you, but i think we knew that already...lol. if its very large, i still feel its safe to say you can beat the next level, too.

Originally Posted by Pythonic

Originally Posted by Chopper

Originally Posted by Pythonic

Chopper, what level do you play? Only 5/bb?

winrates are for credibility. they let someone know whether they can beat a game or not. if you run 10+/100 over 10k hands, i feel its safer to say you are not...just on a heater. 10k is not much to base "true win rate" on, that is true, but 10k IS enough to get an idea of whether or not you are better than your competition.

Chopper, my winrate for my total 29,000 hands played is 11.80. Can a heater last that long?

i suppose some would say yes. but, at 10NL where suckouts and draw chases w/o odds are common, i would say its not a heater. period.

you WILL have your swings, but over 29k more hands, i doubt your winrate will be significantly higher or lower.

Originally Posted by euphoricism

Yes. But I have no doubt youre a good player. Move up, youre costing yourself money by playing that low.

jury is still out here, imo. do the math...you will have to beat 25NL for 4.5ish/100 to equal what you can do at 10NL. will your game play that out? it may, it may not...play 10-20k hands and find out. we all agree that the more you play, the closer you get to a dependable number.

once you get to 100NL, you only need to beat it for 1/100, but again, that remains to be seen...although, i dont see how you cant, if you can beat 10NL for over 10.

Originally Posted by Chopper

Originally Posted by euphoricism

Yes. But I have no doubt youre a good player. Move up, youre costing yourself money by playing that low.

jury is still out here, imo. do the math...you will have to beat 25NL for 4.5ish/100 to equal what you can do at 10NL. will your game play that out? it may, it may not...play 10-20k hands and find out. we all agree that the more you play, the closer you get to a dependable number.

once you get to 100NL, you only need to beat it for 1/100, but again, that remains to be seen...although, i dont see how you cant, if you can beat 10NL for over 10.

I am not using any hud device right now. Should I get that software before moving to 25NL?

A HUD wants to be used wisely. I know it feels more "professional" to play with a HUD and you get to say "...villian is 15/9 over 76 hands" but seriously, it´s way overrated at micro´s. The human mind is lazy by nature and when we use a HUD we aren´t focused as we would be without it. At 25 and 50nl you´re building your base for solid hand reading skills and a HUD will cripple your learning process. At these stakes a HUD won´t tell you anything you couldn´t see with your eyes when you play concentrated and make notes frequently. Again, I dont want to sound rude, I´m talking from my own experience, where I made loads of crappy plays based on wrong used HUD stats and lack of concentration.

as for the winrates, these are my stats for the past 7 months (excluding ~25k hands I lost on my second pc) the 50Nl stats are all 6max, pt doesn´t make a difference between sh and fr

I think 80k hands is good enough to determine a long term winrate, although it still could be way way off.

i agree that HUDs make you "dependent." i disagree that they make you pay less attention. i can see how they do, but for me, personally, i am more dialed in when my HUD is running. i check stats more often, and make specific notes. w/o it, i tend to give everyone credit for bets...and play too tight/passive. but, thats just me.

it CAN cripple your learning process, but so can multi-tabling. over time, you will learn...HUD/noHUD, single table/multi table...you will get better.

i like those stats...and i may stand a bit corrected when i said that 10k can give you an idea of whether or not you beat a game. clearly, those 50NL stats are evidence against me, as compared to the 25 and 100 stats.

as to whether or not to get a HUD, thats up to you. i think its every bit worth the money. you may be like me and dont plan to play live very often, if ever...therefore, why not use the HUD? if allowed to, i will take every advantage available to me. if they let me take it to a casino, i would.

i think you are silly, or a purist maybe, to not use anything that will help you PLAY better. i can be a purist, too, but i am not using wooden heads on my driver anymore. and i dont drive long trips w/o cruise-control, either. so, why wouldnt i use a HUD?