10nl TT flop sizing theory/logic discussion

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SB ($6.53)
BB ($32.77)
UTG ($11.24)
Hero (MP) ($14.41)
CO ($11.51)
Button ($10)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 10, 10
1 fold, Hero bets $0.30, 2 folds, SB calls $0.25, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.70) 10, J, 8 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.50, SB raises to $1, Hero raises to $2, SB raises to $6.23 (All-In), Hero calls $4.23

Turn: ($13.16) 8 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($13.16) 2 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $13.16 | Rake: $0.59


Ok, so the SB decides to click back this flop the range i give him for this taking his choice of sizing into consideration is {88 JT Q9 JQ+ 9T 89 97 J9}

I'm crushing this guys range here so i decided to make a smaller raise and just double his bet trying to bloat the pot early on that drawy board so i could play for stacks on turn or river, another benefit of the smaller than usual sizing was to make him think im FOS and encourage him to play the weaker hands in his range more aggressively as a result.

I noticed that this guy didn't have auto topup on or anything and so obviously isn't a reg, i had no stats or particular reads on this guy either.

But for the sake of discussion, do you guys think making non standard sized raises vs regs or lags when you have a monster and are happy to get stacks in will increase the frequency that you actually do get stacks in? By increasing the amount of mistakes your opponent makes, especially the mistake of playing the weaker hands in their range more aggressively than they would to standard lines and bet/raise sizing??

you are talking about using bet sizing to manipulate action and ranges - this is great.

non-standard sizing can be fine, but think about the why of standard sizing in particular spots.

for this hand he's a lot of 88/JJ/JT/J8/T8/J9/QQ+/Q9/97 and your flop 3b sizing is getting close to giving direct pot odds for open ended straight draws to call - which makes it pretty bad. You can 2.2x as bluff vs weak cbets vs fit or fold regs and print image and money

the most common examples of profitable non-standard sizing at micros include:
1 - overbetting turns for value when you are confident that villain desparately wants to see the river card and doesn't like to fold
2 - betting enough to leave villain less than 1bb behind if when they call = three button theory.
3 - varying between 1/3 pot and overbet (approx) cbets in 3b pots
4 - tiny (say 8bb into 40bb) thin value bets on rivers when you hold nut hands like 2nd pair no kicker

Originally Posted by daven

1 - overbetting turns for value when you are confident that villain desparately wants to see the river card and doesn't like to fold

Lmao, this sounds like it could be very effective.

I understand that we wanna price out the draws yeah but what i mean is non standard sizing e.g. considerably smaller and considerably larger than normal when you have a nut hand and aren't folding to a shove, could induce say a hand as weak as top pair god kicker say on a dry board to spazz out due to panic/confusion that something out of the ordinary just happened.

E.g. Villain holds JQ you have 55 on;

J59 rainbow - he bets you make a small re raise he's confused and convinced your bluffing and makes a large re raise then you shove over villain calls

or same hands and flop

he bets you shove or make a large re-raise say lhe cbets like 50c you re raise to $3.50 he's like wth i have top pair this guys a lag/hes bluffing villain shoves, snap call

obviously it's not going to work every time but vs certain guys it might like regs who are used to the same situations over and over and possibly lags who finally flop top pair and can't lay it down.

I think once he raises you, you can assume he will either go with the hand or not and just raise big committing him rather than giving him odds to call with a draw on the flop by re-minraising him.