10NL - JJ when ugly turn hits

I would bet flop for like 0.50$ and turn for 1$. Villains at this level rarely think about your bet sizing, so why not make it twice as cheap? If he is scared of turn card he really can't continue (raise) with much. If he continues to call passively weirdest think I could expect to see at showdown are some weakish kings, QQ, some Tx, ...

Why bet 50c, (less than half the pot), on the flop? You are offering him odds of 3 - 1 which is almost the explicit odds he needs to continue with a flush or straight draw. He's not folding these draws, most of his small/medium pocket pairs and may be willing to call with two overcards to the board, especially if one is a heart. You need to get value from these hands.

Originally Posted by Duffryn

Why bet 50c, (less than half the pot), on the flop? You are offering him odds of 3 - 1 which is almost the explicit odds he needs to continue with a flush or straight draw. He's not folding these draws, most of his small/medium pocket pairs and may be willing to call with two overcards to the board, especially if one is a heart. You need to get value from these hands.

Its still bad odds for a flush or a straight draw. Good odds for a straigh + flush however.

But really, you think that 10NL player is capable of folding QJs, Axs, JTs, etc on this board agains the odds? Nope.
Besides, if I wanto draw, and you give me the wrong odds, I just might reraise and represent some fat hand.

Originally Posted by Nekrogovner

Its still bad odds for a flush or a straight draw. Good odds for a straigh + flush however.

Implied odds?

Originally Posted by Nekrogovner

But really, you think that 10NL player is capable of folding QJs, Axs, JTs, etc on this board agains the odds? Nope.

I agree that these hands won't be folded. So why not charge them? Why give them a price that with implied odds, it's correct to call.

Originally Posted by Nekrogovner

Besides, if I wanto draw, and you give me the wrong odds, I just might reraise and represent some fat hand.

Such as? There are very few raising hands that the villain can credibly represent. And a small flop bet is more likely to be raised than a large one.

Originally Posted by Duffryn

Implied odds?

I agree that these hands won't be folded. So why not charge them? Why give them a price that with implied odds, it's correct to call.

Such as? There are very few raising hands that the villain can credibly represent. And a small flop bet is more likely to be raised than a large one.

There are many, I can represent any flush draw, flush draw with T or 9 in it, sets, stupidly played AA-JJ.

And noes...I wouldn't charge them with easily dominated hand on worst flop ever with the worst turn ever.

Originally Posted by Nekrogovner

There are many, I can represent any flush draw, flush draw with T or 9 in it, sets, stupidly played AA-JJ.

And noes...I wouldn't charge them with easily dominated hand on worst flop ever with the worst turn ever.

On the flop, JJ is ahead of most flush draws and flipping with nearly all the rest. Its unlikely that a 19/13 villain limp/called UTG with the hands that make the better flush draws, like AhKh. Similarly, QQ+ is very unlikely to be in his range and probably not 99-JJ. The only hands you fear him representing are 22, T9o, T9s, QhJh, with maybe a little worry about 99, TT, slight concern about QQ-AA and not being that keen on AhKh, AhQh and KhQh.

That is a good flop for Jacks. 269 rainbow would be better, but AhTh9h would be a lot worse.

Kh (along with 8h) is the worst turn I agree. I am going to stop participating in derailing the thread, because the original question was what to do on that turn. My answer to that is I don't really know. Too tough for me.