10NL flop top two pair with flush draw on board

[zbeg]

PokerStars, $0.05/0.10 Hold'em Cash Games, 5 Players

Board:
CO: $11.05
Button: $6.05
SB: $10
BB: $28.70
UTG: $20.60

Dealt to CO T 9

Pre-flop:
(1 folds), CO raises to $.40, (2 folds), BB calls $.30

Flop: ($.85) T 4 9 (2 Players)
BB bets $.50, CO raises to $2.30, BB raises to $28.30 and is all-in, CO calls $8.35 and is all-in.

No reads on villain.

I think this is a bad call, but I'm not sure.

Only hand I was worried about is 44, as it is unlikely he has TT or 99, so I figured he was most likely on a flush draw.

But him shoving with a flush draw is pretty bad too, since the only hands he would beat if he has something like A J is if I had a hand like K Q and was drawing to a lower flush. Even if I have TPTK he's a slight dog.

At 10NL I expcet people to shove with flush draws like that, even though I know it's pretty bad to do so. Is my reasoning flawed, or should this have been a fold?

[scfc_andy15]

Definetly 44 is a big possibility, but I can see him doing this with QJhh aswell as 87hh. Cant see just a bare flush draw calling a shove, but villian could be bad enough to do that. A10 does this but rarely. I honestly can't see you are ahead that much as you arent even a favourite against QJhh. Maybe my analysis is shit though lol

[spoonitnow]

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...in-t87954.html

[surviva316]

But him shoving with a flush draw is pretty bad too, since the only hands he would beat if he has something like A J is if I had a hand like K Q and was drawing to a lower flush. Even if I have TPTK he's a slight dog.

this part of the analysis is very very flawed. in fact, if villain knew that he would make you have to consider folding top two by shoving, than going all in is like the easiest poker decision you're going to run into.

as you pointed out, there are only 5 combos of sets, there are 3 million combos of FD's, there are a lot of combos of OESD's and GSSD's + tainted overs and there are some possibilities out there of him spazzing out with a hand you dominate like ATo or T4s.

[LawDude]

I am much more of a conceptualist and less of a PokerStove devotee than most, but isn't this a pure PokerStove question? Put villain on a range, plug it into Stove, and see if you have enough equity against the range to justify calling at the odds that you have to call.

Right?

[spoonitnow]

I am much more of a conceptualist and less of a PokerStove devotee than most, but isn't this a pure PokerStove question? Put villain on a range, plug it into Stove, and see if you have enough equity against the range to justify calling at the odds that you have to call.

Right?

That's one way to think about it, but an easier way to think about it that is more conceptual and less mathematically and software-demanding can be found in my new book "The Link I Posted Above".

[LawDude]

Sorry, spoon, you are right.

In any event, let's form a consensus as to what range we put villain on and see if Hero has the equity to call.

I am much more of a conceptualist and less of a PokerStove devotee than most, but isn't this a pure PokerStove question? Put villain on a range, plug it into Stove, and see if you have enough equity against the range to justify calling at the odds that you have to call.

Right?

That's one way to think about it, but an easier way to think about it that is more conceptual and less mathematically and software-demanding can be found in my new book "The Link I Posted Above".