10 10 preflop?

I noticed this combination is not in the hand ranking groups. Should it be in group 6 maybe? What suggestions would you give for playing this set? Limp in for small, if you miss the set in the flop - fold? Thanks for the info

I personally raise TT alot of the time (especially in later positions), but if it is raised before me I am usually going to be sethunting with it (or looking for weakness so I can steal).

In cash games I limp in EP and MP. Just too many scare cards.

But in a SnG or MTT with blinds worth stealing. I'm raising it from most postions and hoping for the blinds, a set, or an overpair. If anyone wants to give more "TT in Tournament" I'm all ears. Toguh hands are more tough in those in a sense.

it's there, it's written TT, not 10 10. probably the reason some play it like mor like QQ not 88.

Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms

it's there, it's written TT, not 10 10. probably the reason some play it like mor like QQ not 88.

what?

It's in group 2. The OP was asking about it not being in the hand rankings. He was asking about 10 10. I was just making a little joke about it being a (TT) letters like face cards,not (10,10) numbers like small PP. My fault for not typing LOL whenb I make a joke

IMO, TT is a raising/coldcalling hand in any position no matter the stakes. Its a top 5% hand. If you aren't raising TT you will very likely have the stats of a Tight-Passive/Aggressive (not a terrible result, but not terribly good either), and won't get your big hands paid off by semi-aware players.

I see it now.... just glazed right over it being shown as TT. Thanks for the advice.

your welcome, I think that was the point of the post, no?

raise

call in EP, raise in LP.

At a loose 10max table call in all positions.
At a tight 10max table raise in all positions.
6max raise everywhere.

Figure out what your table is and find the happy medium.

Originally Posted by Irisheyes

call in EP, raise in LP.

At a loose 10max table call in all positions.
At a tight 10max table raise in all positions.
6max raise everywhere.

Figure out what your table is and find the happy medium.

You only raise top %2 in first position? Thats seems easy for aware players to read.

Originally Posted by Renton

Originally Posted by Irisheyes

call in EP, raise in LP.

At a loose 10max table call in all positions.
At a tight 10max table raise in all positions.
6max raise everywhere.

Figure out what your table is and find the happy medium.

You only raise top %2 in first position? Thats seems easy for aware players to read.

I don't know the % but I raise JJ and better and AQ and better.

Raising AJ/KQ is deffinitly a leak and I don't think adding one more hand (TT) will add all that much deception. If I was going to add a hand it would be 67s but I don't feel the need yet (at 400NL).

Originally Posted by Irisheyes

Originally Posted by Renton

Originally Posted by Irisheyes

call in EP, raise in LP.

At a loose 10max table call in all positions.
At a tight 10max table raise in all positions.
6max raise everywhere.

Figure out what your table is and find the happy medium.

You only raise top %2 in first position? Thats seems easy for aware players to read.

I don't know the % but I raise JJ and better and AQ and better.

Raising AJ/KQ is deffinitly a leak and I don't think adding one more hand (TT) will add all that much deception. If I was going to add a hand it would be 67s but I don't feel the need yet (at 400NL).

I play 200nl and people are generally aware enough to avoid the player that rarely raises out of position. I raise almost all pairs and AJs+, AQ+, KQs in ep and it helps my AA/KK get paid off better.

Originally Posted by Renton

Originally Posted by Irisheyes

Originally Posted by Renton

Originally Posted by Irisheyes

call in EP, raise in LP.

At a loose 10max table call in all positions.
At a tight 10max table raise in all positions.
6max raise everywhere.

Figure out what your table is and find the happy medium.

You only raise top %2 in first position? Thats seems easy for aware players to read.

I don't know the % but I raise JJ and better and AQ and better.

Raising AJ/KQ is deffinitly a leak and I don't think adding one more hand (TT) will add all that much deception. If I was going to add a hand it would be 67s but I don't feel the need yet (at 400NL).

I play 200nl and people are generally aware enough to avoid the player that rarely raises out of position. I raise almost all pairs and AJs+, AQ+, KQs in ep and it helps my AA/KK get paid off better.

are you sure you're not leaking there?


Don't like AJ and KQ UTG. I even hate AQ but I bite the bullet and raise it. However I will raise with TT a lot even UTG. Nothing wrong with the hand, and you can rep the overcard anyway.

just raise a lot in mid/late position if you want deception. Does poker tracker identify what players to in which position? or just the vp/ip and PFR? (I don't play @ a poker tracker supported site. I don't like PT).

Originally Posted by salsa4ever

are you sure you're not leaking there?

Not in 20k hands. Maybe when I get a bigger sample.

If I raise 66 utg I get much better paid off when I set up then then when I limp/call with 66 utg.

I don't ALWAYS raise pairs in EP, but probably around 50-60% of the time.

Also, I have over 6% PFR% in all positions (obv its higher in late), so I am virtually indetectable when I have AA/KK.

All I am saying is that, if I were playing at a table with Irish, and I saw him raise UTG, I wouldn't call with anything that he could win a big pot off me with (like AK, AQ etc). I'd call him with suited/connecting junk and or small pairs and we'd play a big pot on my terms.

Similar to how I would play against tight-passives (I am not saying Irish is tightpassive, but I'd play it similar).

Originally Posted by Renton

Originally Posted by salsa4ever

are you sure you're not leaking there?

Not in 20k hands. Maybe when I get a bigger sample.

If I raise 66 utg I get much better paid off when I set up then then when I limp/call with 66 utg.

I don't ALWAYS raise pairs in EP, but probably around 50-60% of the time.

Also, I have over 6% PFR% in all positions (obv its higher in late), so I am virtually indetectable when I have AA/KK.

All I am saying is that, if I were playing at a table with Irish, and I saw him raise UTG, I wouldn't call with anything that he could win a big pot off me with (like AK, AQ etc). I'd call him with suited/connecting junk and or small pairs and we'd play a big pot on my terms.

Similar to how I would play against tight-passives (I am not saying Irish is tightpassive, but I'd play it similar).

That why I don't make money off players like you Renton. If everyone payed as much attention as you I would have to change everything. As things stand though, for the situation I play in I believe my strategy suits the conditions well.

i've just realized how you've really got to get in there and raise pairs 99+ if not 88+ in EP because you can't have people putting you on AK/AQ when you raise and making a play on your cont bet on a 722 flop. If you're showing down 88 when you raise they can't just put you on overs that easily.

This thread really makes me question my game a lot when playing hands in EP -> MP...

I'm routinely folding less than premium hands (and I count pairs less than face cards as these) from before MP and only limping in when there are multiple callers (i.e. hoping to set) with lower PPs.

Renton's concept of raising earlier on/limping less and taking on early raises with suited connectors is something that's never really occured to me, but as I'm still learning, that's not surprising.

J

http://www.liquidpoker.net/forum/vie...topic_id=17993

TT Should be named "TalentedToms".

Originally Posted by jameseyb

This thread really makes me question my game a lot when playing hands in EP -> MP...

I'm routinely folding less than premium hands (and I count pairs less than face cards as these) from before MP and only limping in when there are multiple callers (i.e. hoping to set) with lower PPs.

Renton's concept of raising earlier on/limping less and taking on early raises with suited connectors is something that's never really occured to me, but as I'm still learning, that's not surprising.

J

It takes a lot of knowhow and situational awareness to be able to play like that profitably.

In the 700 games sample in my PT, 89s is my second most profitable hand (after KK). Mainly from this game:

** Game ID 781374425 starting - 2006-05-05 03:44:13
** Rotherhithe [Hold 'em] (0.10|0.20 No Limit - Cash Game) Real Money

- pokerdeano sitting in seat 1 with $44.10
- jrrfootball sitting in seat 2 with $47.11 [Dealer]
- Kevin_0823 sitting in seat 3 with $13.00
- Lockwizle55 sitting in seat 4 with $5.25
- poolshrk sitting in seat 5 with $5.50
- jackvance sitting in seat 6 with $19.29

Kevin_0823 posted the small blind - $0.10
Lockwizle55 posted the big blind - $0.20
** Dealing card to jackvance: 9 of Hearts, 8 of Hearts
poolshrk folded
jackvance called - $0.20
pokerdeano raised - $0.40
jrrfootball raised - $0.60
Kevin_0823 folded
Lockwizle55 folded
jackvance called - $0.60
pokerdeano called - $0.60

** Dealing the flop: 7 of Hearts, Queen of Diamonds, 6 of Hearts
jackvance bet - $1.30
pokerdeano raised - $2.60
jrrfootball called - $2.60
jackvance raised - $11.70
pokerdeano called - $11.70
jrrfootball folded

** Dealing the turn: 4 of Spades
jackvance went all-in - $6.99
pokerdeano called - $6.99
pokerdeano shows: King of Spades, King of Diamonds

** Dealing the river: 10 of Spades
jackvance wins $41.78 from the main pot

(dunno why I didn't push on the flop, I was going all-in anyway when I would get a caller - just sat down at the table, probably wasn't thinking straight yet)


My third most profitable hand in this sample is 77, from this game:

** Game ID 781329801 starting - 2006-05-05 02:47:17
** Marabou Viva [Hold 'em] (0.10|0.20 No Limit - Cash Game) Real Money

- redndead sitting in seat 3 with $28.30
- jackvance sitting in seat 4 with $60.14
- Frippo sitting in seat 5 with $20.85 [Dealer]
- Carragher_23 sitting in seat 6 with $10.06

Carragher_23 posted the small blind - $0.10
redndead posted the big blind - $0.20
** Dealing card to jackvance: 7 of Diamonds, 7 of Clubs
jackvance called - $0.20
Frippo folded
Carragher_23 folded
redndead bet - $1.20
jackvance called - $1.20

** Dealing the flop: 8 of Spades, 6 of Diamonds, 9 of Clubs
redndead bet - $1.00
jackvance raised - $4.00
redndead called - $4.00

** Dealing the turn: 7 of Hearts
redndead checked
jackvance bet - $4.40
redndead called - $4.40

** Dealing the river: 6 of Spades
redndead checked
jackvance bet - $12.00
redndead called - $12.00
jackvance shows: 7 of Diamonds, 7 of Clubs
redndead mucks:
jackvance wins $43.00 from the main pot



I like the points Renton makes here. I'm being too wussy lately to raise smaller pps on occasion. I'm gonna add that to my repertoire. And damn I really gotta get PT! Renton *really* knows how to work that program! I'm starting to feel inspired here.. I just love to look at statistics and all that haha.

I think there's a difference between being TAGG, and being a complete nit.

I think if you start raising too much with those pairs etc. at lower limits it is def a leak. $25 NL and lower none of the players really pay attention to what position you are raising from. For example, I often raise to 3-4x the bb from 2nd position w/ AA and get 3-4 callers. This tempts me to raise even more but I find that it just gets folded around if you raise to like 5-6x the bb. I think that it is really profitable just to play really tight at these games. If you start to raise w/ AJo from early position you are going to get too much action for your own good.

Agreed. I have AQ listed as a very big danger hand/leak now for that reason. It's just too easy to raise it early on, get called and then get shafted on the flop when you make a pair, but get reamed by someone that was holding a lower pocket pair, but made trips.

J

James, you're being paranoid here man. AQ is great. So is AJ, but you gotta not "overplay" that one, like this guy did here:

** Game ID 783769638 starting - 2006-05-07 05:56:41
** Lime Gladiator [Hold 'em] (0.10|0.20 No Limit - Cash Game) Real Money

- lqqkatmynutz sitting in seat 1 with $16.60
- pemiem sitting in seat 2 with $20.00 [Sitting out]
- slicky73 sitting in seat 3 with $12.60
- cubcreek sitting in seat 4 with $17.64 [Dealer]
- zoobin sitting in seat 5 with $26.60
- jackvance sitting in seat 6 with $19.80

zoobin posted the small blind - $0.10
jackvance posted the big blind - $0.20
** Dealing card to jackvance: Ace of Spades, Queen of Diamonds
lqqkatmynutz folded
slicky73 raised - $0.60
cubcreek folded
zoobin folded
jackvance called - $0.60

** Dealing the flop: 5 of Clubs, King of Clubs, Ace of Hearts
jackvance checked
slicky73 bet - $0.80
jackvance called - $0.80

** Dealing the turn: 2 of Diamonds
jackvance checked
slicky73 bet - $2.20
jackvance called - $2.20

** Dealing the river: 8 of Diamonds
jackvance checked
slicky73 went all-in - $9.00
jackvance called - $9.00
slicky73 shows: Jack of Hearts, Ace of Clubs
jackvance wins $25.00 from the main pot

Fair enough jack, a good result for you, but my leak stems from being the aggressor and not the caller.

You're being passive in this instance and just calling his raises. When I get AQ, I'm usually in the position that I have to be the one making the bets. I'll raise pre-flop, usually getting a single, maybe two callers, then have to c-bet postflop.

I know there is a whole other thread on c-betting and I appreciate that it's not necessary all the time, but in these instances (small sample size rules apply here) I made pairs and good ones too. It's therefore hard for me to lay down and that's a) the leak and b) the reason they are bad cards for me.

J