[spoonitnow strategy] The Incorporation of Second-Level Thinking

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

He indicated on the turn that he wanted some sort of pot control. I don't think he realizes that being in position allows him more control on the river even if he bets the turn.

How do i get more control on the river?

Originally Posted by surviva316

The point I meant to include is that--if I'm understanding the concept correctly--our absolute hand strength still isn't a primary concern. This would be a consideration for ANY hand that isn't good enough for us to comfortably felt; in fact, the hands that are exposed to the greatest risk are hands that are barely not good enough to felt comfortably (the fact that KJ is a more marginal fold implies that there are more hands that we would have beaten if called, implying that we're making a mistake more often). So the weaker the hand, the less concerned we are about making a mistake by not felting our hand.

What this is really all about--again, assuming I have this right--is weighing how fat the value is versus the disadvantages that expose us to risk of making a mistake in a big pot. So KJ gets fatter value than K3, but it also makes more mistakes in large pots. This isn't to say that K3 is a better hand to vbet with here than KJ. I just mean that the logic shouldn't be, "Our hand isn't that good, so we should pot control"; it's "Our hand isn't in our nut range, and there's a potential for a disadvantage in a big pot so we should consider pot control, the merits of which don't simply boil down to hand strength."

You're absolutely right about all of this.

Originally Posted by seven-deuce

How do i get more control on the river?

I just mean that being in position gives you more control over the size of the pot since he'll be more likely to check to you with the given action. If he doesn't check to you, then it's an easy spot to play here since his river range isn't balanced.

Went through and found some spots that hopefully apply to the article.

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players

BB: $9.85 (98.5 bb) 19/17 | 9.6% 3bet | 600 hands
UTG: $12.66 (126.6 bb)
MP: $4.75 (47.5 bb)
CO: $21.88 (218.8 bb)
BTN: $27.72 (277.2 bb)
Hero (SB): $10.20 (102 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T A
4 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, BB raises to $0.64, Hero raises to $2

I think villain's sizing here says it all. He thinks my opening range is weak in this spot (which it is), so I think he weakens his range in his position to try to exploit the weakness of my range.




Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players

SB: $10.42 (104.2 bb)
Hero (BB): $25.19 (251.9 bb)
MP: $10.37 (103.7 bb)
CO: $10.88 (108.8 bb)
BTN: $27.39 (273.9 bb) 24/16 | 25% BTN ATS | 100% fold to cb | 100 hands

Preflop: Hero is BB with J K
2 folds, BTN raises to $0.30, SB folds, Hero calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.65) Q 9 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.40

So I flatted pre because I likely dominate a decent portion of his range, though honestly and unrelatedly to the point here I think a 3bet is probably better in this spot. Anyways, I lead the flop. He's never seen me do this before. It's fairly dry, he likely thinks I'll have a strong leading range here?




Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 4 Players

CO: $10 (100 bb)
BTN: $5.37 (53.7 bb)
Hero (SB): $17.13 (171.3 bb)
BB: $4.29 (42.9 bb) 22/7 | 64% FTS | 67% fold to cb | 42 hands

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6 5
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.60) T 7 A (2 players)
Hero bets $0.40

So I cbet the flop because I think on this board villain will think I'm pretty strong. Because of this it's pretty hard for him to continue without an ace or better, which it's hard for him to have.