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[FTR Quick Tip #002] Preflop Raise Sizing

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  1. #1

    Arrow [FTR Quick Tip #002] Preflop Raise Sizing



    FTR Quick Tip: Helping you plug leaks in 5 minutes or less.

    This week's tip focuses on what size of preflop raise is good in different situations.
    Last edited by givememyleg; 04-10-2013 at 01:18 PM.
  2. #2
    First question; Does a min/r ( or a smaller raise than our "standard" ) not make us look weak to our opponents and open us up to being 3bet bluffed a little more than usual?
  3. #3
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    IF villains make that adjustment, then wouldn't you just call a bit more of those 3-bets?
  4. #4
    Yes, if your opponents start 3betting you wider, then you can narrow your opening range a bit and widen your range to call their 3bet, as well as add in some 4bet-bluffs (if stacks are deep enough), as your opponent's 3betting range will be wider than normal.

    Since we will be using this smaller raise size against shortstacks, it is really good for us if they 3bet very wide; we will get maximum value from our great hands. If we are opening small versus a player who is not a shortstack, but 3bets a lot (more than he probably should), then getting him to 3bet us even wider means that his leak becomes magnified. In other words, if someone is 3betting us in a spot 15% of the time, and then he sees us open small, so he widens his 3betting range to 25%, well, he's exposing himself to re-exploitation for a lot more chips than he will be exploiting us for.

    Another situation for making your raises small, which I didn't have time to get into in the video, is when you are stealing the blinds from the CO or the BTN. While you might induce some action from a smaller sized raise here, you will have position against your opponents a lot of the time, which will work to your advantage. Furthermore, by keeping your sizing small your opponents have a dilemma: Either they make their normal-sized 3bet, in which case you don't NEED to call or 4bet all that often to prevent them from exploiting you, or they will size down their 3bet proportionately to your open-raise size, in which case you can call pretty wide and own them postflop when they have garbage (which will be a lot of the time, if they are widening their ranges a lot against you).
  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobra_1878 View Post
    First question; Does a min/r ( or a smaller raise than our "standard" ) not make us look weak to our opponents and open us up to being 3bet bluffed a little more than usual?
    If you are minraising you want your opponents to 3b you more and cold call less. It's a mistake on their part. Generally.
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  6. #6
    daviddem's Avatar
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    Do you vary your open sizing in function of position? Assuming unknown full stacked villains and no limpers in front of you, what are your standards for FR and 6m?

    Wishes for some of the next episodes:
    - when do you / don't you 3b AK (obv. ignore if you auto 3b AK)
    - playing AK post flop in 3b pots when you are the aggressor and you miss the flop (both IP and OOP). Show some spots where you choose not to cbet and explain why.
    Last edited by daviddem; 04-10-2013 at 02:27 PM.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by daviddem View Post
    Do you vary your open sizing in function of position? Assuming unknown full stacked villains and no limpers in front of you, what are your standards for FR and 6m?

    Wishes for some of the next episodes:
    - when do you / don't you 3b AK (obv. ignore if you auto 3b AK)
    - playing AK post flop in 3b pots when you are the aggressor and you miss the flop (both IP and OOP). Show some spots where you choose not to cbet and explain why.
    Yes, I usually open to 3.5x from all positions except the CO and BTN. At a particularly soft table, I even will open to 4x sometimes, since I expect to outplay everyone postflop and therefore benefit from a larger pot. At a tougher table, I'll open to only 3x, if I expect a lot of 3bets.

    In the cutoff I tend to open to a bit less than 3x, and from the BTN around 2.5x. But if the blinds are big fish who play poorly postflop, then it is usually a mistake to open so small, and then I will make a 3-4bb open.

    The AK ideas are interesting. I think I may do a video in a few weeks about when to flat vs 3b with AK. Thanks for the idea!
  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1013 View Post
    I expect to outplay everyone postflop and therefore benefit from a larger pot.

    ...

    I usually open to 3.5x from all positions except the CO and BTN. [...] In the cutoff I tend to open to a bit less than 3x, and from the BTN around 2.5x.
    There's an interesting contradiction in this. On one hand we benefit from a larger pot when we expect to have a post-flop advantage but on the other hand we make big raises from EP when this advantage is the smallest and small raises from LP when this advantage is the biggest.
  9. #9
    daviddem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fielmann View Post
    There's an interesting contradiction in this. On one hand we benefit from a larger pot when we expect to have a post-flop advantage but on the other hand we make big raises from EP when this advantage is the smallest and small raises from LP when this advantage is the biggest.
    There are several ways of seeing this:
    - you raise more in EP with strong hands because you make less money OOP than you make IP, so you compensate for that by playing a bigger pot (that's assuming that you are not a loosing player oop of course. Also since there are a lot of players behind you, you have a good chance of getting called.
    - you raise less IP because your range is much wider, so most of the time you prefer to play a smaller pot, and you have a better chance of getting called when you have a big hand.

    Of course it'd be nice to also raise big with your big hands IP and get called and make even more money, but unless the players behind you are fish (as mentioned by OP in his last post), you won't get called enough and if you start raising small with your weak hands and big with your big hands, your game becomes transparent.
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  10. #10
    Hi everyone I haven't been here since lovinpoker wasnt letting USA players play at there site been MIA. I appreciate reading everyone's poker strategies very helpful Im trying to get back into the swing of things. I like the video too really informative. Do you have a video on how I can install that stat info on all the players, is it free? Also do you have a video on how to make a poker video like you did? Thank you have a Nice day

    - Eric
  11. #11
    daviddem's Avatar
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    for the stats program google hold'em manager or poker tracker
    for the screencast, google camtasia

    you can find "free" versions of camtasia out there... or for alternatives google screencast.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by daviddem View Post
    There are several ways of seeing this:
    - you raise more in EP with strong hands because you make less money OOP than you make IP, so you compensate for that by playing a bigger pot (that's assuming that you are not a loosing player oop of course. Also since there are a lot of players behind you, you have a good chance of getting called.
    - you raise less IP because your range is much wider, so most of the time you prefer to play a smaller pot, and you have a better chance of getting called when you have a big hand.

    Of course it'd be nice to also raise big with your big hands IP and get called and make even more money, but unless the players behind you are fish (as mentioned by OP in his last post), you won't get called enough and if you start raising small with your weak hands and big with your big hands, your game becomes transparent.
    Yeah, I pretty much agree with everything here, david. Basically, your advantage from EP lies mostly in hand strength, so get more money in when your hand rates to be best.

    Your advantage from LP mainly comes from: lol I haz position, my opponents play poorly, I will outplay them preflop and postflop. But your range will be pretty weak if you are opening as much as you should from late position. So unless your opponents are really playing atrociously, you don't really gain much by having them call a big preflop raise when you are in late position. You're trying mostly to win the blinds uncontested and you usually will be well behind their range when they call or 3bet.

    Another way of looking at it is that when you open in LP, the best result for you (the great majority of the time) is that everyone folds. Playing postflop is only a backup plan.

    Quote Originally Posted by erickane View Post
    Hi everyone I haven't been here since lovinpoker wasnt letting USA players play at there site been MIA. I appreciate reading everyone's poker strategies very helpful Im trying to get back into the swing of things. I like the video too really informative. Do you have a video on how I can install that stat info on all the players, is it free? Also do you have a video on how to make a poker video like you did? Thank you have a Nice day

    - Eric
    There are two popular tracking software packages currently available, Holdem Manager 2 and Poker Tracker 4. Both of them have trial versions, so you can download them both and try them out and see which one you like best. They take a while to configure; in particular, you need to point them towards the folder(s) with all your hand histories, and set them to recognize your preferred seating options. But both are awesome software packages that have benefited from years of experience by both companies, and the level of detail they give you, not only on your opponents, but also on your own game is amazing.

    There is also a free open-source solution called FPDB (Free Poker DataBase). While it is not as full-featured as the commercially available products, it does have some advantages, notably the ability to import hands from other games like 2-7TDL and 7-Card Stud.
  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by daviddem View Post
    for the stats program google hold'em manager or poker tracker
    for the screencast, google camtasia

    you can find "free" versions of camtasia out there... or for alternatives google screencast.
    Ha! David beats me to the punch again.

    Yes, Camtasia Studio is the software package that I use to produce the videos. I have tried some other free programs in the past, and was less than enthused by their ease-of-use, feature set, and quality of production. Be aware that there is a completely different product called Cam Studio, which is not remotely the same or related to Camtasia.

    The price of Camtasia Studio software is pretty high, but I have found it to be worth the price, as I had become frustrated by the other options. There is a 30-day free trial of Camtasia Studio.

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