Too loose?

I'm looking to plug holes in my game and am wondering if this might be one of them. How's my call on the flop here?

Playing 4/8 at The Tropicana

Table is somewhat loose passive with 2 tight-aggressive players to my immediate left.

I'm in the CO and dealt



Several callers in front so I limp in. Button folds, SB folds, BB checks

Flop comes:



BB checks
UTG+1 bets (loose)
MP calls
MP+1 calls
I call (having 2nd pair+backdoor flush potential, figuring nobody would bet there with a set, I call)
BB calls


Turn:



BB bets (I'm sure he has 2 pr and if he's raised I'll fold here)
UTG+1 calls
MP folds
MP+1 folds
I call (heart draw + 3 9's...my 7's are dead I'm sure)

River:



BB bets (he's not a very good player so I'm not even sure he realizes he's got JJ44 with no kicker...my read is he has J3 in his hand)
UTG+1 folds
I raise for value
BB pauses awhile then calls and shows J3, just like I thought

Now, this hand worked out but long-term is my flop call here OK? I figured with several people in, the pot would grow rather large and justify my 1 sb here. If folding isn't in order perhaps a raise might be, to attract more people in?

Originally Posted by LockLow34

Table is somewhat loose passive with 2 tight-aggressive players to my immediate left.

Just where you want them. Remember to steal the button often!

Originally Posted by LockLow34

Now, this hand worked out but long-term is my flop call here OK? I figured with several people in, the pot would grow rather large and justify my 1 sb here. If folding isn't in order perhaps a raise might be, to attract more people in?

It's probably close.

To me, it looks a bit loose... However, you might have pot odds to call if you consider catching a 7 is an out. I generally dont like thinking the 7's are outs since its not the top 2-pair and if theres a possible straight or flush against me, I definately woulnt count it. I generally dont like playing the hand w/ 2nd button unless its HtoH. If a rag falls on turn, are you still calling or going to fold?

I might play this hand if its 2nd button and a gut-shot too.

honestly I'm surprised there is even really a question about if you should fold or not here. You are almost definately up against somebody with a J and somebody with the flush draw. The odds of hitting the backdoor flush are small enough to almost be ignored. This leaves you with 5 outs(3 of which might not even be good). And even if you hit one of your outs, the flush chaser might hit his flush making you lose anyway.

Folks thanks for the analysis. I"m still not positive my thinking in this situation was correct. Mostly I was looking at having 2 things: big pot and position on the whole table. Without those I wouldn't even consider calling.

Originally Posted by Krapp

To me, it looks a bit loose... However, you might have pot odds to call if you consider catching a 7 is an out. I generally dont like thinking the 7's are outs since its not the top 2-pair and if theres a possible straight or flush against me, I definately woulnt count it. I generally dont like playing the hand w/ 2nd button unless its HtoH. If a rag falls on turn, are you still calling or going to fold?

I might play this hand if its 2nd button and a gut-shot too.

What's H-to-H?

If a rag falls on 4th street I'll fold to a bet as I'm likely drawing dead or close to it.

I was also thinking of implied odds with all those callers on a raggedy flop like that.

Originally Posted by Nehmer

honestly I'm surprised there is even really a question about if you should fold or not here. You are almost definately up against somebody with a J and somebody with the flush draw. The odds of hitting the backdoor flush are small enough to almost be ignored. This leaves you with 5 outs(3 of which might not even be good). And even if you hit one of your outs, the flush chaser might hit his flush making you lose anyway.

To make up for those issues I do have position on the whole table. Plus I had good reads on all the players. When everyone drops on 4th street I'm sure my flush draw is good. (the player in the BB wasn't sophisticated enough to bet his flush draw on the turn)