My 15/30 experiment

Well, it didnt start out to be an experiment, but thats how it ended. After getting nailed 3 or 4 times with made hands by shitty hands in over $2k in combined pots, I've realized a few factors:

1. The players are more likely to cold call a raise than limp. Why this is? If they know you play a standard game of poker and raise with the goods, they know that if they hit you will pay them off. This didn't make too much sense for me either but standard poker at this level just doesnt work. I tested this hypothesis out by raising 4 consecutive hands; of those 4 hands, the same four players after me cold called at least 3 out of 4 times, it really got me thinking.

The final hand I played (and, inevitably lost for that matter), the guy to my left raised his 56s and nailed his flush on the turn. Well, I paid him off with middle pair because I didn't believe him for shit and was more than surprised to see I just paid off suited connectors.

So, what should you be raising? Should I be raising the more marginal hands and limping the larger hands? Start raising suited connectors and baby pairs, not to isolate, but to build big pots? I don't mind getting 4 cold calls after raising with AA, because I know I'll win my share (I lost both yesterday for pots combined at $900). Or maybe I should never limp?

Moving on, you can never know what kind of game this actually is until you've played it. Its hard to believe what Fnord is talking about until you actually go in there and try it yourself. If I didn't have such a run of cold cards my session probably would have been a lot better. Not hitting any flush or straight draws after building 25 BB pots with them gets really annoying, and about midway through the session I stopped getting cards altogether. I couldn't even shit suited cards if I wanted too and the 104o and J4o got really annoying.

In conclusion, Do I think this game is beatable? Definately. Do I think i can do it? Not at this current time. I dont have the mental capacity right now to handle such swings at high stakes and I dont have the time to significantly change my game. I just wish had i known of the above things before I played (or at least remembered them) I either 1) wouldn't have lost so much, 2)wouldn't have played so much or 3) none of the above.

Jeff,

First off, thank you for the insight and results of your experience. It is definately valuable knowledge for players moving up. How many hands did you play at this session? This table sounds very loose if players behind will be coldcalling 3/4 times in a row. I've never played 15/30 before but I would think position and relative position is a huge factor for what hands you can play and how you can play them. Even at 3/6 I am taking these factors into account. I don't know if you can be raising marginal hands though (esp out of position). I think you have to remain tight. For what I've seen, suited cards go up in value. The blinds will usually call with just about any suited 2. It honestly just sounds like you caught a run of cold cards and were unable to make up the difference. Did you switch up tables at all? I find that if I am catching cold cards and folding left and right, a raise gets a lot of respect. Therefore, your theory probably holds true. Hopefully your session didnt set you back to badly. Judging from your prior posts, you have the knowledge to beat the game. The $ of each bet is definately a mental obstacle that is difficult to overcome. Thanks again for your insight.

I havent played in the 15/30 game, but i did play in the 30/60 game over spring break and I noticed a lot of the same things (when I saw 5-6 way raised pots I couldnt resist). The amount of cold calling was astonishing to me, and the aggression level was crazy. The same thing happened to be, I got a card rush to start, went way up, and then lost all but 5bb back to people calling raises with junk. The 15/30 and up is a whole new ballgame, they dont pay you off often enough and it always seems that you pay them off. The game I played in the table VPIP was over 30% and there was a raise every hand. I think to play these games you have to have a BIG bankroll, as the swings are going to be huge, and be able to mentally handle the amount of money at stake. I believe the game is VERY beatable, but you are right, it will take a drastic change in the way you or I now play.

Originally Posted by trikflow77

I havent played in the 15/30 game, but i did play in the 30/60 game over spring break and I noticed a lot of the same things (when I saw 5-6 way raised pots I couldnt resist). The amount of cold calling was astonishing to me, and the aggression level was crazy. The same thing happened to be, I got a card rush to start, went way up, and then lost all but 5bb back to people calling raises with junk. The 15/30 and up is a whole new ballgame, they dont pay you off often enough and it always seems that you pay them off. The game I played in the table VPIP was over 30% and there was a raise every hand. I think to play these games you have to have a BIG bankroll, as the swings are going to be huge, and be able to mentally handle the amount of money at stake. I believe the game is VERY beatable, but you are right, it will take a drastic change in the way you or I now play.

Yeah, I agree. I was at the Sporting Bet's 15/30 table because they didnt have an up and running 10/20 full at the time. I actually have done pretty okay at the 10/20 full at SB and Pacific. I originally started at 10/20 pacific but moved up stupidly after I lost a bunch at SB and saw 60 vpip at pacific 15/30. I figured, why not right?

I believe the 10/20 games at pacific and SB are very very beatable just as long as you can get over the dollar value. The gap between the 10/20 and the 15/30 is TREMENDOUS. I'm very reluctant to try the 10/20 at Party and thats where I'm going to be staying for a while.

Im going to start playing over at pacific more, now that I can import my hands. I am sure the 10/20 game is better than the 5/10 at party. I will mostly likely play the 10/20 at pacific, i play the 5/10 over there some, never really looked at the 10/20, guess I should start.

import hands?

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

import hands?

check pokertracker's website/forums. there is a pacific hand grabber now.

I've never played at those levels.. but it seems, from the description, almost like an aggressive 0.01/0.02 game, where, I suppose, the hands are picked more for value.

In a game like that (mind you I have no experience at those levels) it seems like tightening up your starting hands (probably get rid of KJo from the CO/Button almost altogether) and playing the value hands (suited connectors, etc) and just increasing the agg. level makes a lot of sense.