I don't fold in big pots

UTG was a laggo. His opening range UTG (and this assuming he is aware of position, which may in itself be giving him too much credit) is probably like A7+, 44+, 98s+, QJo+. I'm not worried at all about him having me beat on the turn, he most definitely would raise an overpair or better. By his fold on the river I am reasonably certain he was chasing with A8 or A7.

No real read on the Button, but I think it's 99/TT here often, he insta raised the turn. JJ is possible, as is ATs, perhaps T9s.

My image is usually fairly tight, but I had been getting a good run of cards. I barrel overcards a lot against passivity Villains are likely not paying a whole lot of attention though.

Thoughts?

PokerStars Limit Hold'em, $6.00 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q, Q
UTG raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, Button calls, 2 folds, UTG calls

Flop: (10.5 SB) 9, 6, 10 (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, Button calls, UTG calls

Turn: (6.75 BB) 5 (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, Button raises, UTG calls, Hero calls

River: (12.75 BB) 2 (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks, Button bets, 1 fold, Hero calls.

I call and be sad when button, who should probably have folded preflop but had odds to chase afterwards, flips over his 2 pair or (more likely) weak backdoor flush.

If the flush hadn't come on the river I'd have bet into him.

You have to look at his cold call of my 3bet preflop. He just isn't going to show up with garbage hands like 96/T6/95. T9 and 65 are basically the only possibilities for 2 pair. I can't see even 65s cold calling 3 bets preflop, and even T9s would be a stretch.

I doubt he raises two diamonds on the turn either. If he's drawing he wants to just call to draw in a call from UTG, and then have some implied odds on the river, or fold if he misses. He's seen me 3bet and then bet two streets, it is highly unlikely that I am going to fold. A backdoor flush is very unlikely unless he has specifically AdTd.

As for betting into him on the river, the thought crossed my mind, but there are problems with that line. Mainly that when I am crushed by a set (fairly often IMO) or even a slowplayed aces/kings, he's going to pop me again and I will have a hard time folding getting 16-1 with a solid hand.

FWIW he had KsTs. Pretty loose cold call preflop, but his flop and turn play were fine. I'd have checked behind on the river though with two opponents. Really the only hands he is value betting against are 99/88/JTs. Unless, I suppose, he could think I'd call him down with AJ/AQ/AK (the way the action went, I probably wouldn't)..

first time seeing this one....and wrote this before i saw your answer.

but, i definitely call and think its 50/50 as to which way the pot slides.

btn calling 3 cold makes me wonder "WTF?" but, i tend to put them on TT+/AQ+ when that happens. we are running 60/40-ish against that range.

LAGGO pretty much shuts down, making me think definitely a weaker draw. i am not too worried about him unless he suddenly springs back to life.

that instaraise could be some flush draws and sets/overpairs, but it looks like an attempt to steal the pot, too. and, you are only worried about KK+.

it looks a bit bad, but i am just wondering if we still arent correct to call here, given our equity against the range we think he may hold.

Originally Posted by Chopper

first time seeing this one....and wrote this before i saw your answer.

but, i definitely call and think its 50/50 as to which way the pot slides.

btn calling 3 cold makes me wonder "WTF?" but, i tend to put them on TT+/AQ+ when that happens. we are running 60/40-ish against that range.

LAGGO pretty much shuts down, making me think definitely a weaker draw. i am not too worried about him unless he suddenly springs back to life.

that instaraise could be some flush draws and sets/overpairs, but it looks like an attempt to steal the pot, too. and, you are only worried about KK+.

it looks a bit bad, but i am just wondering if we still arent correct to call here, given our equity against the range we think he may hold.

I agree with Chopper. The calling 3 cold is extremely weird at 3/6 online, which is the skill equivalent of 20/40 or 40/80 live. It's either a player with a strong enough hand to play but with grave worries about being good against the raising and 3-betting ranges of the other players (something like TT or perhaps AK or AQ) or its a bad player who figures since he has position, he can call with his "semi-strong" hand (suited connectors, broadways, whatever).

If he plays retarded preflop there's a good chance he plays retarded postflop. We're not always winning here but sure as hell more than 13:1 or whatever. I'm never folding this.

Thanks for the replies guys, I was wondering why my thread got no love :P

BTW this was 3/6 on cake (no stars, the converter I found turns cake HHs into PS ones), and was quite fishy, but more aggro than the 1/2 and 2/4 games.

hows traffic up there? mine has been off and on to say the least, and i play 25/50 and 50/1. the only times i play 1/2 is when you were there...lol....and before my cashout earlier this year.

It's hit and miss. Before 6pm EST the tables are so so tight, especially 2/4 and 3/6. But even the 1/2 during the day is like <25% seeing a flop. At night it's often better, but not always many games going.

i just find it funny that in a European poker world at stars and tilt that cake is still peaking on american hours. i see the same thing.

Had another one of these moments today. Table was very crazy, guys cold capping preflop with hands like JTs for shits and giggles.

This villain (MP3) was short stacked and loose/terribad. Had he bet again on the turn, I probably would have folded due to all the players left to act behind me. As played, I can't give him credit for an ace, surely I am good more than 8% of the time? I am still somewhat worried about one of the two players behind me having an ace/JJ+ (damn those loose passive fish!).

For a moment I contemplated a raise (as I am 95% sure MP3 doesn't have an ace) in order to fold out JJ-KK type hands that MP1 may have. But I know he's not thinking beyond "I have a big pair I call" so I'd just be throwing away an extra bet. Plus as played, it's hard for me to rep an ace or better given my river check the first time around. Thoughts are welcomed.


No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Merge network)

MP3 ($10.50)
CO ($17)
Button ($54.20)
SB ($105)
Hero (BB) ($104.10)
UTG ($61.80)
UTG+1 ($110.60)
MP1 ($24.86)
MP2 ($19.50)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 10, 10
1 fold, UTG+1 bets $2, MP1 calls $2, 1 fold, MP3 raises $3, 1 fold, Button calls $3, 1 fold, Hero calls $2, UTG+1 calls $1, MP1 raises $2, MP3 calls $1, Button calls $1, Hero calls $1, UTG+1 calls $1

Flop: ($20.50) 9, A, 5 (5 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP3 bets $1, Button calls $1, Hero calls $1, UTG+1 calls $1, MP1 calls $1

Turn: ($25.50) 4 (5 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, Button checks

River: ($25.50) 4 (5 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP3 bets $2, 1 fold, Hero calls $2, 2 folds

Total pot: $29.50

1. Your converter sucks.

2. This is a really sick spot because you are multi-way with an ace on board. But if I decide there's a good chance I am good, I think a flop raise is basically mandatory to protect my hand.

Korn, I really want to raise here, too. I can't see what you are behind unless some of the players are really passive with JJ or something. I don't think there's an A in someone's hand. However, I don't think I can pull the trigger on a raise because I don't know if it gets paid off?

Dude, I thought the same thing about a flop raise. And, I am usually really loose on the cheap street. But, I don't know what it does to protect our hand here? We risk a 3bet, we have current odds to draw to 2 outs, no one folds to our raise, and it doesn't really deny much anyway since they would still be getting 10:1ish on a peel in a huge pot. I think I just call and pray for a T. But, by the river, after seeing all the pussy checking, I have to think TT is best, and contemplate a raise over the stealing donkey. But, again, I just don't see what he pays off with that I beat.

But @ OP (LOL), I reread this hand, too. I play it exactly as you did today. You have to call ANY river bet because of what you induced with your turn check.

Hand 1
NH imo river is a crying call tough, donking is bad imo.
Hand 2
I think i would fold the river ,

I'd never fold that IMO

...But this might be a time to consider it.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
Limit Holdem $1(BB) Merge
SB ($72.01)
BB ($41.79)
UTG ($45.50)
]UTG+1 ($60.14) - 50/12/2.0 agg postflop (20 hands)
Hero ($88.50)
MP1 ($101)
MP2 ($54.26)
CO ($27.50) 34/1/3.5 agg postflop, 35% W2SD/45% win$ at SD (75 hands)
BTN ($65.44)

Dealt to Hero 6 4

UTG calls $1, UTG+1 calls $1, Hero calls $1, MP1 calls $1, fold, CO calls $1, fold, SB calls $0.50, BB raises to $2, UTG calls $1, UTG+1 calls $1, Hero calls $1, MP1 calls $1, CO calls $1, SB calls $1

FLOP ($14) 7 Q A

SB folds, BB bets $1, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $1, Hero calls $1, MP1 folds, CO raises to $2, BB calls $1, UTG+1 calls $1, Hero calls $1

TURN ($22) 7 Q A J

BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $2, CO raises to $4, BB folds, UTG+1 raises to $6, Hero calls $4, CO raises to $8, UTG+1 calls $2, Hero calls $2

RIVER ($46) 7 Q A J 8

UTG+1 bets $2, Hero calls $2, CO raises to $4, UTG+1 raises to $6 Hero barfs

is it possible to actually beat the rake at 1/2?

I think you can actually find a fold on the turn in your last hand. UTG+1 "might" be tarding it up with like KT but CO has the flush.

1/2 is somewhat beatable. There's a lot of droolers that come play here when the BBJ is 200k+. 50 cents per $5+ pot for the BBJ rake is pretty rough though.

I recall one of the players in the hand being an overaggro drooler (ie, would do this amount of action with a straight, maybe even a set), I think it was the CO, since I remember I was going to lead-3bet the turn. But I think you are right that I could probably fold this the 2nd time around on the turn when UTG+1 checkraises us both.