Congradulations to the Village of WW 2013!!!

Originally Posted by BooG690

I agree. I hated the DTB lynch. Speaking of, DTB, who would your next "lookup" have been?

I hadn't thought that far into the future.

Originally Posted by BooG690

Guys, the reason I'm so good at this game is because...

Short to the point sentences!

And I'd have loved to keep DTB alive, just to see what else he was forced to come up with.

Originally Posted by wufwugy

Keith, you contradicted your own logic. One of the most important things a villager can do (arguably the single most important thing they can do) is keep the wolf suspects that the village lynches on people other than the only confirmed villager they have (themselves).

What a load of rubbish. Did you not see GATOR offering himself up as a safe lynch early game so that the specials were protected. Aubrey , a complete novice at the game ,grasped the importance of this and did the same. Villagers also have to show that they are villagers.I did that by stalling the JV wagon that you were trying to run .If i hadn't , JV was likely dead before he could out himself. JV couldn't have shot Gizmo and gator couldn't have got his read on wolf tactics to identify Daven as the last wolf.

I've no idea why you lump yourself in with Ong. Ong confirmed he was a villager when he voted for pascal and put him a couple of votes ahead of next nearest challenger. You jumped off a villager lynch in jyms but said you still thought he was a wolf.so why jump off?you tried to stop pascal hitting 10 votes.You led the wagon on DTB.a pointless exercise because his role would become crystal clear when either the wolves ate him or real seer was revealed.So it made no difference in finding the remaining wolves.

It isn't a coincidence that the village winrate is much higher in games where villagers are able to distinguish themselves and deflect from their own lynches. By the endgame, this becomes an enormous statistical benefit because they are keeping the only villager they truly know alive while wolves are not that good at doing the same for themselves.

as i showed above this line of thinking is bullshit.Villagers don't prove they are villagers by deflecting from their own lynches, they prove they are villagers by their actions and the quality of their arguments for themselves being villagers and others being wolves.

The idea that Ong and I cause confusion that helps the wolves is demonstrably false because we keep winning whenever we're alive. It's a fun idea, but the bottom line is that when villagers play their cards as hard as they can, the lynches end up hitting the wolves instead. Our "whacky shit" doesn't confuse anybody moreso than the game itself already does because we don't stick to bad reads when they are shown to be bad. And all that whacky shit ends up confirming our village roles in such a way that we could enter the last Day of this game with 3 out of 5 players being wolf suspects instead of 5 out of 5. That's the point

I'm surprised you've forgotten the details so quickly. Ong had confirmed himself as villager with his actions. You don't stick to bad reads is no help , as you don't stick to any reads.

JV is right, you can't play the way I played as a wolf unless you're a psychopath. And since almost nobody is a psychopath, that style corners the wolves very efficiently

I'd love to see where you think it cornered ANY wolves this game. Gators read on Daven didn't involve you at all, same with JV's shot on gizmo, DTB was a dead wolf and you tried to stop Pascal hitting the lynch.

nice job village. as always I enjoyed my few days in the trenches. I'm thinking of making a secret new ftr account to give myself a chance to live longer than 4 days. thanks for the modding and story telling. count me in for the next one

Originally Posted by aubreymcfate

i think i'm the only person i know who uses the word doofus. i prefer doof though.

That is not true. I am also very familiar with dork, total dork and massive dork terminology.

Originally Posted by BooG690

Also, thanks for the new word. I've added cantankerous to my vocabulary.

And you already had regurgitating so that's nice.


Btw, in wuf's defense had he too not jumped in on my theory I am not quite so sure Ong would have dug as deeply into Daven as he did so you have to give him at least a little credit.

But yes it was MYYYYYY soulread that won the game.

There is some truth to that gator. Once I'd seen that jyms died while tied with wuf, I realised wuf must be a villager due to gizmo's dead vote and was keen to vote with wuf last day to ensure some form of town solidarity. I would've probably gone for hoopy if it wasn't for your argument and wuf's support. I was close to 50-50 between the two. I was finding it very difficult to trust you, even after I found the reason for you to be a villager too. That's how good a wolf I think you are!

Originally Posted by Keith

you tried to stop Pascal hitting the lynch.

Remember when I said you wouldn't believe I was a villager even after the game was over?

How is this for a game idea?

No nights, the days are 72 hours long, and the wolves and the specials send their target priorities to the mod at any time before that 72 hours is up. So at any time between hour 48 and 72, the wolves would send the mod their top two nom picks like such

1. Gizmo
2. Hoopy

The two prioritized picks is in case Gizmo ends up being lynched, the mod then kills their next in line pick. If that's too simple, the wolves and specials can send qualifiers for their priorities (like if there is a special lynched, change kill order to 1. Gator 2. Gizmo), or they can make sure to be on and send their final pick within the last couple hours of the game day. They would also be allowed to send an updated list in case between hours 48 and 72, the game has new whacky developments and their minds change.

I think this could work very well because most picks do not take that much effort or thought, and we end up wasting a ton of time on the night phase. I want to mod a game where the night nom and special powers are used immediately upon the lynching, then the following day can start immediately and there is no break in gameplay whatsoever

Thoughts?

Yeah the long nights were annoying.

Originally Posted by jackvance

Yeah the long nights were annoying.

For the villagers.

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

For the villagers.

Nobody cares about the wolves

And if they can't tell you who to kill after ten minutes of thought, they're gonna lose anyways

I will say I was annoyed with the long nights as well. That is basically why I didn't defend myself when a wagon formed against me. I didn't care enough. All in all though, I hate to complain since JKDS did an excellent job modding which is basically doing us all a favor.

I personally dislike the idea though Wuf and I'll explain why (don't think it's anything personal). Most of the action seems to happen in the last few hours as of recent. Sending an early PM is a huge disadvantage to the wolves since they are obviously not considering a huge chunk of the information. Also, having a player like Daven or me, who are in "off-peak" time zones, would give a huge disadvantage to any wolf team with these new rules.

By the way, don't take anything I said about you personally Wuf. I still loves you...except when it comes to this forum. I hate you here. Seriously. Hate. Hate.

I've thought that there could be some ways that it gives the wolves a disadvantage, and figured something like adding an extra wolf to the team could counter that. It would also give a disadvantage to the village specials too though. Not to mention that a "disadvantage" isn't necessarily a problem since advantages are regulated differently by each games' rules in the first place. For example, if the Super Meta game with no specials was thought to advantage the wolves too much, one way to equalize the play would be make another Super Meta game but with no nights this time.

I actually like that idea.

In addition, I don't think that wolf nom choices that take much longer than a minute to make based on a simple set of rules or ideas provides much greater value to the wolf team. For example, in the game we just played, every one of the correct noms by the wolves were ones that took almost no thought about, and the one time they put any FPS effort into it, they actually hurt themselves immensely by nomming Rong instead of JV.

If you go down the list of who the wolves should have killed and why, it would be a very simple Night 1 TLR, Night 2 Gabe, Night 3 JV, Night 4 Bikes, Night 5 Keith, Night 6 Bigred....which is pretty much how this game went

So yeah, I don't think we need to waste gameplay time on the night phase.

BTW, I'm not harping on other mods or JKDS. Every one is very good and has their own style, and we need more mods here. I'm just trying to gather input for the next time I mod. In some ways it would actually be neat to have a dynamic array of WW types based on how the mod likes to structure it. Like I could never do anything like Spectacularrrrr, but the two games I modded were unique in the ways I like, and I'd like to further enhance them by figuring out how to do them without any breaks in play

Originally Posted by NightGizmo

Go on...


You should!

ahh!! i honestly didn't expect anyone to know what i was talking about, lol. you are 1000x cooler now. i tried to get wufwugy to watch it but he couldn't get into it. -sigh- the things i put up with.

i'd be sad giving up Cassidy though (if anyone's curious, he's from a comic book series by Garth Ennis called Preacher - fucking amazing, it may be my favorite comic of all time)

i'll make it Faye at some point in the future, esp now that i know someone will appreciate it. i like to update my avatars and signatures from time to time anyway.

Originally Posted by aubreymcfate

ahh!! i honestly didn't expect anyone to know what i was talking about, lol. you are 1000x cooler now. i tried to get wufwugy to watch it but he couldn't get into it. -sigh- the things i put up with.

Wuf, you're missing out! I've probably seen each episode 20 times (thanks, Adult Swim!), and there are a few episodes I've seen way more than that (mainly: "Ballad of Fallen Angels").

Originally Posted by NightGizmo

Wuf, you're missing out! I've probably seen each episode 20 times (thanks, Adult Swim!), and there are a few episodes I've seen way more than that (mainly: "Ballad of Fallen Angels").

i love the cathedral scene in Ballad of Fallen Angels. "Rain" is an incredible song. actually, that scene doesn't do it justice (particularly the sick bass line). next time you're driving around, blast that song. don't blame me when you can't stop yourself from belting it and people start giving you strange looks. ;P

i've had lengthy conversations about bebop (and anime in general) with wuf. after much egowuging on his part and frustrated ranting on mine, i managed to convince him that anime does have artistic merit. still, i don't think he's sitting through any episodes of it anytime soon.

But Wuf, it seems you pointed out a weak point of your game: It doesn't leave room for more creative noms.

another problem with no night phase is it doesn't give time for any special hunting by the wolves. Sure some posts will stick out to the wolves during play, but the kill phase may be influenced by last minute action or results of the lynch.

You say that the wolf kills should have been straightforward and rong was FPS. Did you actually read the wolf thread?. When you look at the reasoning behind the rong kill it was some pretty good evidence based seer hunting. If they had been right it would have put them in a very strong position.

this game, several of the days ended at 2.30 am uk time with quite heavy action in the last couple of days.If a seer was forced to out themselves at the last minute , wolves/angel/vig could well have sent their choices in ,so you could end up with seer not being protected by the angel and shot by the vig or wolf or wolves not eating an unprotected seer and the seer getting an extra lookup.I don't have a problem with a 24 hour or shorter night if the night action is quicker,as villagers can still use that time looking over the thread for clues as well, and have a chance to have a short break from the game.

You also don't allow for fake outs and resulting true outing by seer leaving angel/vig a choice to make over who to protect/shoot.Thats a situation when time is needed for the village players to make the correct choices and not be rushed into making a mistake.

There is also a myriad of time between 48, 24 and no hours of night phase as well. The wolves are in contact and by no means need even 12 hours to make a decision. I see no reason to not try a 4 hour night at say a good time for both UK and US/Can times can't speed up the game.

I also prefer specials, nothing too elaborate but having them brings a dynamic to the wolves that they just don't have all the info.

And what about off-peak players? I think 12 hours is prime.

No night is maybe best for a game without specials. That's the only way noms can be more straight-forward. But I would limit it in general to 24 hour max. No extentions to 48 hours. I saw the wolf team sometimes used it as a strategic element, for example to try to frame ong who said he would be away for a while, but in general it slows down gameplay too much. Or even shorter than 24 hours. It'll suck for someone like me if I'm a wolf, being on a different timezone than most, but so be it.

And cowboy bebop is a classic among anime, def one of my favorites. So I second the Faye Valentine avatar! I haven't watched anime in years now, but Trigun was probably my top favorite. And one piece, it is so good, I even religiously read the manga until about a year ago.

Cowboy Bebop talk, however

[img]awesome.jpg[/img]

Yeah you all make good points. Except for Rilla, his are terrible

I think it would need to be understood as creating a different dynamic that involves things like suboptimal noms due to things like a seer outing at the very end of the day. For at least 80% of the night choices, however, it would be exactly the same as normal. It would have a small impact in delaying killing certain key players by one day, but that could be made up for by adding an additional wolf to the team or something

Also, I'm suggesting trying it in a game I mod, not making it the new normal.


Would talking nights work better? IOW, 48 hour days and 24 hour nights where the only thing players are not allowed to do during the night phase is bold. I know Rilla liked the idea at first, but JKDS hated it. I stopped doing it in the Super Meta game due to not wanting to step on too many toes, but it might be worth a try going into a new game

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Jeez atleast find your own facepalm picture.

http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ml#post2129987

ITT Villagers who won handily identify the one impediment to their win being seamless.

With no night, the villagers could just wear the wolves down. If you hold as a central assumption that being a wolf takes more effort than being a villager, this is pretty much true.

I believe it does and is, anyway. I think you can see this in how freely a villager can hit submit whilst a wolf would take a moment to re-read and reflect.

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

ITT Villagers who won handily identify the one impediment to their win being seamless.

i have no idea what you just said

And also, I think this talk about reforming towards no nights or nearly no nights is a symptom of how games usually unwind. After villager wins, the majority of players are energized and engaged in werewolf. After wolf wins, the majority of players want to take a break.

I think this whole conversation is a reflection of the results of the game just played.

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

And also, I think this talk about reforming towards no nights or nearly no nights is a symptom of how games usually unwind. After villager wins, the majority of players are energized and engaged in werewolf. After wolf wins, the majority of players want to take a break.

I think this whole conversation is a reflection of the results of the game just played.

Is it? I've been talking about this for months, and tried to implement it to a degree in the previous game

I have observed that night phases last 24 hours just so the wolves can put in 2 minutes of thinking to come up with a kill

GatorJH

Can you come in and comment about a game I recall where you used extended night periods to work together a masterful end-game strat?

Originally Posted by wufwugy

Is it? I've been talking about this for months, and tried to implement it to a degree in the previous game

I have observed that night phases last 24 hours just so the wolves can put in 2 minutes of thinking to come up with a kill

But that's on the back of shitty wolf play, of which I am completely guilty. But that doesn't mean tools should be taken from the wolf tool-box.

What about talking nights then?

Originally Posted by wufwugy

What about talking nights then?

Talking nights could be fine. If you want to think out loud in the thread to hold a sign above your head about how villager you are, I think that plays to your detriment across many games.

I think it'd be cool if the vig didn't kill during the night but could send his kill in at any point. A random death in the middle of the day would highlight a lot about the nature of how people play the game.

Or even a special role that can post, through the mod, during the night. One post, anonymously, from a confirmed villager, about how they see the game unfolding. Maybe at the same cadence as the vig.

To even anonymize it, you could translate it to german and then back to english or some such.

Both great ideas.

what are you going to say at night that you wouldn't have said in the previous day. The only thing that will effectively be discussed is the implications of the previous lynch results.That discussion may even help the wolves choose their next target so may not be beneficial to the village.

Sometimes it can be beneficial to the wolves to close out a days events quickly to prevent further discussion. Talking nights take away that benefit.

My purpose is for more enjoyable gameplay. I don't have much problem with changing the strategy of either team or any roles in small ways to improve gameplay. I've seen many times the nights lasting long putting a damper on enthusiasm to play. It happened to Boog this game, at least

Didn't the game originally have virtually no night phase anyways?

Originally Posted by wufwugy

My purpose is for more enjoyable gameplay.

All of my posts were addressing this point. You want more enjoyable gameplay... for villagers. Which means walking to victory and feeling like it's an accomplishment.

Didn't the game originally have virtually no night phase anyways?

I want to say no because I remember it being pretty much straight vanilla but hell, I could be wrong.

Really, this game would most benefit from this sort of energetic fallout being focused on wolf-success. I feel like wolf play is ignored because the majority of players lose when the wolves win and so don't want to do a full decompress or the wolves basically walk away from their failure after a loss.

We don't need to re-tool the rules, we need to figure out how to energize better wolf play.

But only 20% of the roles given out are of wolves. The game has to pay more attention to enthusiasm among villagers for this reason as well as that most villagers have vanilla roles. It doesn't take much for a wolf to be intrigued, but in every game it seems one or two villagers loses interest due to night phase

Regardless, I'm going to try either a no-nights or talking-nights in a game I mod. Instead of just plopping it on and seeing the fallout, I want to make sure we can come up with a way of doing it that people think is worth trying

We also don't necessarily have a set number of WWs we play here; instead, it tends to just be based on how often the mods want to mod and how enthusiastic the players are about a repeat of the same game style. If I was able to mod a no-nights game, it would be shorter, faster pace, and wouldn't have to detract from the other regular games

Originally Posted by wufwugy

But only 20% of the roles given out are of wolves. The game has to pay more attention to enthusiasm among villagers for this reason as well as that most villagers have vanilla roles. It doesn't take much for a wolf to be intrigued, but in every game it seems one or two villagers loses interest due to night phase

This is wrong and you could argue why if you wanted to.

The game should be an even divide between the wolves and the village. Pure parity.

That means that even though they are numerically the minority, they should have equal consideration to the concerns of the villagers.

If you wanted to help out the masses, play like shit when you're a wolf. More people will be happy for it.

I'm with rilla here all the way. Most of the time I've been a villager but it seems like wuf is arguing in favour of the no work , jump on any wagon thats rolling brigade just so that they can have a lynch.People who actually look for links between players, use the night phase looking for more links, or take a bit of time out from the actual game time work to have a rest.

Anyone can pluck two names from a list and put them up as a head to head. what does it prove atthe end of the day. not a lot. find and use evidence against an individual and it can cement their role one way or the other.

The first game i played as a wolf was a recruiting game , with JKDS and me heading into the final days. when JKDS died there was an outed seer ,hidden angel and confirmed villager +gator and rilla. I got it down to confirmed villager,me gator and rilla and lost to some great villager play by Gator putting himself forward as the lynch to confirm to rilla that he was a villager.

Even in this game wuf was going on about how i only want to FPS as a wolf.Totally ignoring the circumstances . The prime one he was referring to was simply a result of taking advantage of wilbur not being able to put the time in as a wolf. The second was a unique situation in SDM being the vig and saying that he was going to shoot me.The only route for me to take was to fake out as angel so that the real angel would have the option of converting to the wolf team.


What you are arguing for is for the people who only enjoy playing WW when they have a role of some sort. FUCK THAT. They should get as much enjoyment from the game playing as a villager than as a wolf or special. If they only want to play with a role , its super obvious when they are a role, and if they can't be bothered when they get villager they shouldn't sign up in the first place.

If you can't refine your wolf hunting skills as a villager , you've no chance of finding the specials as a wolf.

Wolves very rarely put more than a couple minutes of thought into their kills and a night phase is not required to "take a step back" and evaluate the game by any party. Just because it's daytime doesn't mean you can't spend time evaluating.

The only real purposes of the night phase is to provide all special roles with the fullest information and the ability to deliberate without haste amongst themselves. I think this would be detracted only minimally without a night phase. Some stuff would change for sure, but I think we can find a way to make it work

Thanks for the input and I would like more. I'm interested in finding a way to make it work for a trial run, not just to reject it preemptively

Another thing you are ignoring is the very real possibility that we now have euro , US ,asian and NZ/aus time zones playing.people have to sleep and if wolves are spread around the world forming a plan can take time especially if there are no obvious kills.

Originally Posted by wufwugy

Wolves very rarely put more than a couple minutes of thought into their kills and a night phase is not required to "take a step back" and evaluate the game by any party. Just because it's daytime doesn't mean you can't spend time evaluating.

Originally Posted by wufwugy

In my experience, wolves very rarely put more than a couple minutes of thought into their kills and a night phase is not required to "take a step back" and evaluate the game by any party. Just because it's daytime doesn't mean you can't spend time evaluating.

In your experience, the wolves need to play better, but because they haven't, you feel like you have every opportunity to sacrifice on their behalf to smooth the game over for the majority, the villagers.

The only real purposes of the night phase is to provide all special roles with the fullest information and the ability to deliberate without haste amongst themselves.

There are other very real purposes to the night phase. That you haven't seen these purposes capitalized on does not minimize their reality.

Basically, you're saying that because the wolves don't use it, they shouldn't have it. I'm saying, the wolves/everyone around here should have it and should learn how to use it.

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Basically, you're saying that because the wolves don't use it, they shouldn't have it. I'm saying, the wolves/everyone around here should have it and should learn how to use it.

Sure, they should, but what's practical?

Also, in both the games I've modded, the wolves have won, and I think the reason is I've structured the games in a way that they're harder for the village than standard FTR

We can alter gameplay dynamics and role win percentages anyhow we want

I can say, with finality, that mis-management of the night-phase can cost a Wolf team the game. See also the timing tells that flat out lost me my only game as an alpha wolf.

I have to side with Rilla on this one. The 24 hour period sucks, but it breaks up the game flow causing it to be manageable by people who can't sit at home all day and scour the forums in between masturbation sessions.

There are also ways to use the night phase to gain an advantage if the conditions are right.

The wolves run into serious problems late game that they need the night phase to help with their decisions to level the villagers, as only ONE of the examples that I think is relevant here... I haven't played lately, but I can be relatively honest in saying, I wouldn't ever play in a game with a trunkated night like the one Wuf is suggesting. The grind would be too hard.

The time zones thing is the most important thing for me for obvious reasons. It was almost impossible for Ong, Pascal, and I to be in the same chat at the same time for more than a couple of hours. I think that's why you (Wuf) think that the wolves don't plan much. We COULDN'T plan much. We just didn't have the ability (thanks to me, I guess).

Also, I too take a step back from the game at night and look over what I missed. Since I wake up at 8am KST (12am GMT, 6pm EST), I sleep through a lot of the posts and I'm unable to see them in "real-time" (seeing posts in "real-time" helps create a dynamic in your brain imo). I have to play a ton of catch-up in the morning, try to formulate (and articulate) a read all while taking a shower, drinking coffee, and seeing what's new on Reddit (obviously very important). Night phases are important for me because it's like,"FINALLY, no new posts. I can look this thread over without haste." I miss a lot during these mornings and nights help me ensure I definitely catch-up.

As for the talking in night phases, I like the idea. It adds another dynamic to the game. I personally wouldn't speak at night but I believe in allowing players to do so. It can add to both wolf and village strategy.

Wuf, if you mod, I'd ask that you lean toward talking nights rather than no nights. However, I'll still be part of your no nights experiment if need be. Oh, and let's never get two parallel games going here unless we can somehow create a link between the two. Like, two games that are really one game...or something.

Okay we should discuss a night-talking game then.

Is there a way to make that work? I know JKDS hated it and Rilla loved it....

I think JKDS just argued that actually posting at night gives wolves information that they shouldn't have. Most villagers probably won't post at night. Problem solved?

Originally Posted by BooG690

I think JKDS just argued that actually posting at night gives wolves information that they shouldn't have. Most villagers probably won't post at night. Problem solved?

The main reason I stopped it after two nights of doing it was because I thought it would massively benefit the village in the endgame due to having an extra villager voice after the lynch role is known due to the killing of that "extra villager" by the wolves being delayed

Question: how often do people on the mafia forum play? The reason I'm asking is I want to get some idea of how often we should run games here. We normally have like a month break between each game, but if people want to play more often than that, I can mod more. Modding is much, much easier than playing, and it's rather enjoyable

There's always games running on the mafia site, it would be easy to have four or five games running constantly if one so desired. Some people do play that many. I don't, I have two max. Difference though is that there's a much larger player pool there than there is here. I much prefer to play here though, purely because of those I play with, and I feel many of the players here who make the games so enjoyable like to have a break between games. We have good size games right now, if we play too often than maybe we have smaller games. That's why I started playing elsewhere, to get my fix without impatiently waiting for others here to be ready.

You're welcome.

I don't particularly like the idea of night talking, it'll probably just make it harder for the wolves as this is their time to converse, but then they still have to keep up the banter in village chat too. Rather just a hard cap at 24h night phase.

Originally Posted by bigred

You're welcome.

It's alive!

I don't mind night chat. Personally I'll be quieter than daytime whether wolf or villager. Just so long as votes don't count.

How about the 72 hr days and no nights as wuf suggested, but only for the first two nights. After that the wolves can choose no night or 24hr night, and it is automatically a 24hr night if a special is revealed. That would speed things up a bit whilst still protecting the wolves later in the game.

Or

We could have a game with longer days and longer nights,
but increased killing power across both sides.

4 days for each day and 2 day nights.

This allows for the businessmen of the world who want to insist on living away from the internet to have ample time to check in and keep pace with the game as it continues to move forward.

But for these longer time frames, each side has increased killing power. A vigilante who can only strike during the day phase in addition to an off night vig, a wolf vig who also bolsters their wolves' killing strength...

Essentially we move the game away from consensus votes being the main avenue of killing to create a game where everyone can die at any moment, and everyone has ample opportunity to be heard.

Need a much bigger pool for that.

Why? It could work with our current pool.

Fewer game days, but more happening in them.

I can also mod!

Playing this last game wasn't fun for me. I was always playing catch up so I eventually just gave up. Modding would require less thinking work and more modkilling Wufwugy work. That's the best kind of work.

If you modkill me, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine

Longer days'll lead to decreased activity which we already seem to have a problem with.

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

GatorJH

Can you come in and comment about a game I recall where you used extended night periods to work together a masterful end-game strat?

Sounds like it was awesome and I really wish I could remember. Do you remember what game it was? That may spark some memories.

I do remember one game as a wolf when we would make our selection and purposefully ask the mod (who I think was rilla) to NOT open the thread for a period of time so we could make sure no one could get a "timing tell" on the wolves based on when the thread opened and who was online at that time.

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Basically, you're saying that because the wolves don't use it, they shouldn't have it. I'm saying, the wolves/everyone around here should have it and should learn how to use it.

This x100. Also, just because wolves arent posting in the ww thread...doesnt mean they arent actively using their time. Much of it is used reading and rereading the thread for ideas/flaws/specials/etc that isnt posted about until the idea solidifies. Hours of work could be going into a single post, and there isnt a way to see that because no one brags going "lol, i just spent my whole life scouring over this thread".



Lets try and refocus the question here though. Is it

A) Omg fuck these long nights and days! Nevar do this again!!! Banz please!
or
B) Hey, lets try a lightning round werewolf!


A) is stupid. Sorry, just is. There is a long list of reasons why long nights and days are better for players and the game as a whole that I could enumerate if you so desire. Yes, you can change the rules around to solve many of these issues, but this completely changes the game and thats not the goal you guys are seeking. The issue, as i understand it, is that long nights and days are "boring" and therefore strategic benefits to either side should be forsaken. Thats just...so SILLY. What is the big deal in waiting for wolves to make a decision? Go grab a bear and see your mum. I dont think anyone wants to sit here glued to this game for 3 weeks without that little break inbetween days and nights.

(im gonna preempt the "but sometimes wolves were just delaying on purpose" attack by saying its a natural reaction when some players use nk timing to find wolves. if you dont like that element, you shouldnt hunt for wolves using it either. reap what you sow and what not).

Lets talk about B) though. I am more than happy having a game of turbo werewolf. We've had these before as well iirc. You have to understand though, that this wouldnt be the same game. Its a gimmick game. There are tons of cool ideas we could try... (like giving lynched players the opportunity to shoot someone, having everyone be life-linked to another player, having two different werewolf teams...)...but these are all gimmicks too. There is nothing wrong with that. However, classic werewolf gameplay needs to be the norm. We played 3 gimmick games and the lot of you demanded a no-specials game. I got the same feel when I made this one, that classic was what was desired. Its like...I enjoy playing the occasional tournament...but cash games are where its at. The game is called werewolf so we should be playing werewolf sometimes ya know what im saying?



Dont get me wrong. I am a huge fan of gimmick games. (passion for them, actually). But when someone wants to play a standard werewolf game...we shouldnt be cutting the nights and days in half just because some players find them to be a little boring and others arent using them to their full advantage.

Originally Posted by BooG690

Longer days'll lead to decreased activity which we already seem to have a problem with.

How so? I saw no decreased activity in this game that was the result of the game day length as opposed to work/social/strategy/bigred issues.

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Why? It could work with our current pool.

Fewer game days, but more happening in them.

I agree. Its a nice gimmick game that has a lot of fun potential. You're not arguing against me here, but im gonna reiterate that this should never be the norm though.

Oh yeah, night chat. I forgot.

Whhhhyyyyyyyy night chat? Is it really just because people are bored? Thats the reason? Read a book, buy a video game, fuck, play poker. Why on earth does this game need to be open 24/7? Does anyone REALLY want that?

The only real reason I've wanted night chat is because when I mod, I can't lock the thread. So I tried to figure out a way to make night chat work

A couple of points.

Rilla's idea us all fine and dandy but it's a different game and doesn't solve the issue of long nights and villagers losing interest (even if it only happens a little bit).

Night chat does not seem like a good idea in general imo. Wuf, isn't there normally a random mod around who could lock the thread if you asked?

Long nights do cause a loss of interest for villagers. No doubt about it. The argument that rilla and JKDS seem to present is tough Shit village. But this sucks! Most people enjoy playing as a wolf/special much more than regular villager so focusing on maintaining the interest of the less interesting role seems like a good idea to me. I get the point about wolves needing some night time for activity, but surely 24 hrs is enough and wtf is there to do on night one anyway? So my idea ahv