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KK on A high flop, turned 4 flush

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  1. #1
    supa's Avatar
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    Default KK on A high flop, turned 4 flush

    Villain is 20/15 over 210. Has rerasied me otf twice vs my cbet and hasn't 4bet. Flop sizing sucks? What to do on turn?

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    CO: $50.50 (101 bb)
    BTN: $14.25 (28.5 bb)
    Hero (SB): $54.35 (108.7 bb)
    BB: $22.65 (45.3 bb)
    MP: $101.39 (202.8 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with K K
    MP folds, CO raises to $1.50, BTN folds, Hero raises to $4.50, BB folds, CO calls $3

    Flop: ($9.50) A 9 5 (2 players)
    Hero bets $4.75, CO calls $4.75

    Turn: ($19) 7 (2 players)
    Hero ???
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  2. #2
    Vi-Zer0Skill's Avatar
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    I think I'd c/f turn. villain will check down with TT-QQ if he has them, and imo the rest of his range is Ax type hands and without more info I wouldn't try to get him to fold.
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  3. #3
    Unless you typically cbet half-pot, any aware villain will see that the flop scared you. You have a draw to the nuts and what still could be the best hand; I argue a blocking bet is in order. I'd think a check here is so weak that it's an automatic bet for vil whether he has AA or 23.
    Last edited by Chusko; 03-14-2012 at 07:14 PM.
  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vi-Zer0Skill View Post
    I think I'd c/f turn. villain will check down with TT-QQ if he has them, and imo the rest of his range is Ax type hands and without more info I wouldn't try to get him to fold.
    Yeah it's either this or bet turn shove river.


  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chusko View Post
    Unless you typically cbet half-pot, any aware villain will see that the flop scared you. You have a draw to the nuts and what still could be the best hand; I argue a blocking bet is in order. I'd think a check here is so weak that it's an automatic bet for vil whether he has AA or 23.
    Half pot is a standard size for this situation, whether we have Ax or not. It doesn't tell the opponent anything.

    I don't think a check here is necessarily "weak" we would often check an ace. I would typically check and call depending on his size, we can have the best hand and we have 11 reliable outs.

    I think betting the turn is fine as well, its a good way to prevent being bluffed and its extremely unlikely that villain shoves. I think betting the turn is good in isolation and I don't think shoving the river is mandatory when called, but it might be best to shove the river depending on your reads.
  6. #6
    supa's Avatar
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    As played, how much if we bet the turn?

    Also thanks for the responses. I'm obv new to the shnl forum but plan on posting here more as long as 50nl goes well for me.
    “Right thoughts produce right actions and right actions produce work which will be a material reflection for others to see of the serenity at the center of it all”

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  7. #7
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Renton View Post
    Half pot is a standard size for this situation, whether we have Ax or not. It doesn't tell the opponent anything.

    I don't think a check here is necessarily "weak" we would often check an ace. I would typically check and call depending on his size, we can have the best hand and we have 11 reliable outs.
    Interesting.... I'll keep this in mind. Thanks
  9. #9
    You should be checking the flop probs unless you just don't have a c/c range here.
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  10. #10
    Renton's Avatar
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    idk, i kinda of like being on the level here where at first you are c/fing 100% cause people put u on a hand. Like, i'd c/f a garbage hand like JT no bdfd just to bet the turn when it checks through. I kind of feel like c/cing KK doesn't do much for your range here. Having the Ks makes it more attractive than normal though.
  11. #11
    I would continue betting, you have many outs to improve, plus KK here is still worth some valuebet. If hand doesn't improve check the river.
  12. #12
    Vi-Zer0Skill's Avatar
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    looking at this hand again I can see the merits to valuebetting the turn. I think my c/f line is too weak and versus a reg means your bluffs will be less protected

    it's also a highly opponent specific spot: if we assume he calls rather than raises 9x on the flop, does he bet it on the turn when checked to? does he call another bet with 9x/TT-QQ if we valuebet instead? at 50nl these reads are more important than having a balanced barreling range imo

    althought I've not played online in quite a while, I'd imagine at 50nl you probably can't value shove the river with KK. I also think the river will often go check/check and you will probably take it down about 50% of the time (sometimes losing to Ax and sometimes beating smaller pairs)
    Quote Originally Posted by Carroters
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  13. #13
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    Think he can for sure float this flop pretty wide. A load of regs esp in reg wars just hate to fold to a half pot c bet here and will float pretty wide. c/c turn and c/soul read blank rivers should be fairly solid vs most imo.
  14. #14
    Bet/fold turn IMO. If he shoves we only have 10 outs , as I doubt he ever shoves worse here. But he might call with worse if you bet. So I bf turn, shove river.
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