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zook
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05-27-2008, 10:20 PM
Post subject: 2/4 200bb deep vs. laggy reg
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Villain is a 2p2'er, good regular that plays as high as 5/10. He runs 29/20/2 over a lot of hands and is an aggro 3bettor and seems to 4bet more than most. My notes say that he 4bet me twice 200bb deep in a previous session, I folded both times and he's already 4bet me once at this table and I've folded. So, I decided to call this time. Is pre-flop terrible? Flop plan?
Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Holdem Ring game - Blinds: $2/$4 - 5 players - Converter
Stack sizes:
UTG: $1040.30
CO: $807.30
Hero: $800
SB: $499.80
BB: $140
Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with T  A
UTG folds, CO raises to $14, Hero raises to $48, 2 folds, CO raises to $158, Hero calls.
Flop: T  2 7  ($322, 2 players)
CO checks, Hero...
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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As played id check but I don't tend to get out of hand preflop here, but it can't be too bad.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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thats a huge 4bet...id just fold
and check back flop as played, what happens on the turn?
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Quote:
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thats a huge 4bet...id just fold
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converter screwed up, fixed. still a big 4bet though.
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,766
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its actually a pretty standard 4bet size for 200bb deep...
PF is meh, i guess its ok its sooted cant be that bad against that guy. I check flop too.
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
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Toadstool
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 442
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I really dont like the pf call, A10s is just a hand that suffers from big reverse implied odds in a 4 bet pot, this deep i'd much rather be calling with a hand such as 10 9s, as I wouldn't really feel comfortable stacking off with A10 if I had less than top two.
On the flop - I dont mind a check behind as villain is likely drawing to 2 or 3 outs if he is behind and id rather try and see a showdown as cheap as possible in this situation. If you bet the flop and he wants to play then its almost surely going to be that he wants to play for 200BB's and your hand is not faring well against his range if he does.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Why are you raising this guy pre? I think you should go with polarized 3-bets and just call with hands that have good nut potential and are ahead of his range, like this one.
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Why are you raising this guy pre? I think you should go with polarized 3-bets and just call with hands that have good nut potential and are ahead of his range, like this one.
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This is a good point and usually my strategy. I was a bit off my game today 
So I bet $200 on the flop and he c/r'ed AI ($442 to call to win $1164)...
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
Posts: 1,610
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Why are you raising this guy pre? I think you should go with polarized 3-bets and just call with hands that have good nut potential and are ahead of his range, like this one.
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i really like this point. i feel like this is a big problem of mine. that is, 3 betting the wrong players with KQs, ATs, etc.
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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yeah i like calling ATs always unless you think you can induce something based on history/game flow. This new 4bet size does seem a lot more standard. I think that floating it is all right sometimes but I'm going to play the hand you flop pretty cautiously (I would shove if he bet but when he checks I think you need to check back). As played I think you should call because if youre not good you still usually have about 26% equity.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,334
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by zook
($442 to call to win $1164)...
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equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 30.287% 29.93% 00.36% 12299634 146956.50 { AsTs }
Hand 1: 69.713% 69.36% 00.36% 28501749 146956.50 { TT+ }
Given that his range is certainly wider, I think you're pot-stuck.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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Is the opp Dr. Giggy?
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Massimo
Is the opp Dr. Giggy?
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No, gopher.
Results: I called he showed Tc6c. He bitched about how bad I played it and challenged me to HU  I do think I butchered the hand.
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BigPapi
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Rotterdam, Holland
Posts: 437
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you can't call if he just checked flop 
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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I think the call preflop might be slightly losing, but if you are betting this flop you cannot fold.
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Deanglow
I think the call preflop might be slightly losing, but if you are betting this flop you cannot fold.
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i was gonna say stuff but this is better and more succinct, bet/calling flop is probably ur best option given his line though and the pf action
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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JL
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,095
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by zook
($442 to call to win $1164)...
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equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 30.287% 29.93% 00.36% 12299634 146956.50 { AsTs }
Hand 1: 69.713% 69.36% 00.36% 28501749 146956.50 { TT+ }
Given that his range is certainly wider, I think you're pot-stuck. |
This is for pre-flop. You forgot to add the flop.
Board: Td 2s 7c
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 21.804% 21.80% 00.00% 4749 0.00 { AsTs }
Hand 1: 78.196% 78.20% 00.00% 17031 0.00 { TT+ }
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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wtf rigged equity calculation didn't include T6cc
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Deanglow
I think the call preflop might be slightly losing, but if you are betting this flop you cannot fold.
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i was gonna say stuff but this is better and more succinct, bet/calling flop is probably ur best option given his line though and the pf action |
I also think between checking flop with SD value/for deception/whatever and bet/calling that b/c is better.
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,766
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Genitruc
wtf rigged equity calculation didn't include 23o !!
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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bigred
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PROFESSIONAL TROLL
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nest of Douchebags
Posts: 2,184
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by zook
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Massimo
Is the opp Dr. Giggy?
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No, gopher.
Results: I called he showed Tc6c. He bitched about how bad I played it and challenged me to HU I do think I butchered the hand. |
Because calling with T6s is a good play? (Serious question, pinch of sarcasm))
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LOL OPERATIONS
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigred
Quote:
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Originally Posted by zook
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Massimo
Is the opp Dr. Giggy?
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No, gopher.
Results: I called he showed Tc6c. He bitched about how bad I played it and challenged me to HU I do think I butchered the hand. |
Because calling with T6s is a good play? (Serious question, pinch of sarcasm)) |
He shoved with T6s, he didn't call with it. So I don't think his play is that bad either. Puts a lot of midpairs and stuff in a crap spot.
Zook - what's the worst pair you're betting here?You bet calling like 88, or A7?
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
Zook - what's the worst pair you're betting here?You bet calling like 88, or A7?
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I like A7 a lot better than 88. 88 needs a lot of overcard bluffs in his range to be a +EV call, A7 not as many. I probably don't call with either pre, but I shouldn't have called with ATs...
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bigred
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PROFESSIONAL TROLL
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nest of Douchebags
Posts: 2,184
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigred
Quote:
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Originally Posted by zook
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Massimo
Is the opp Dr. Giggy?
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No, gopher.
Results: I called he showed Tc6c. He bitched about how bad I played it and challenged me to HU I do think I butchered the hand. |
Because calling with T6s is a good play? (Serious question, pinch of sarcasm)) |
He shoved with T6s, he didn't call with it. So I don't think his play is that bad either. Puts a lot of midpairs and stuff in a crap spot.
Zook - what's the worst pair you're betting here?You bet calling like 88, or A7? |
It's a good pf call though?
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LOL OPERATIONS
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigred
It's a good pf call though?
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He 4-bet T6s preflop, and didn't call the 4-bet! I think his 4-bet is fine, given that hero was being aggressive or getting out of line.
hero is the one that called the 4-bet.
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The Odds God
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 252
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Pf call is slightly bad, not terrible. I would check flop.
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The secret to success in poker is to rig the odds in your favor.
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