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nutpeddler

10-22-2004, 01:00 PM Post subject: Misplayed?

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: May 2004

Posts: 4

PokerStars Game #: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02)
Table 'Peiroos' Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: Chickieee ($5.76 in chips)
Seat 2: BoCarlon ($3.77 in chips)
Seat 3: slappysilly1 ($4.78 in chips)
Seat 4: AsIAm ($2.22 in chips)
Seat 5: I.F.O ($6.12 in chips)
Seat 6: atl.chris ($1.96 in chips)
Seat 7: BkFireWall ($2.30 in chips)
Seat 8: HERO ($5.26 in chips)
BkFireWall: posts small blind $0.01
HERO: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [5s 5h]
Chickieee: calls $0.02
BoCarlon: calls $0.02
slappysilly1: calls $0.02
AsIAm: calls $0.02
I.F.O: calls $0.02
atl.chris: folds
BkFireWall: calls $0.01
HERO: checks
*** FLOP *** [2s 3c 5d]
BkFireWall: checks
HERO: bets $0.12
Chickieee: folds
BoCarlon: calls $0.12
slappysilly1: folds
AsIAm: folds
I.F.O: folds
I.F.O is sitting out
BkFireWall: raises $0.38 to $0.50
HERO: raises $0.54 to $1.04
BoCarlon: folds
BkFireWall: raises $1.24 to $2.28 and is all-in
HERO: calls $1.24
*** TURN *** [2s 3c 5d] [9h]
*** RIVER *** [2s 3c 5d 9h] [4c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
BkFireWall: shows [6h 4h] (a straight, Deuce to Six)
HERO: shows [5s 5h] (three of a kind, Fives)
BkFireWall collected $4.62 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $4.82 | Rake $0.20
Board [2s 3c 5d 9h 4c]
Seat 1: Chickieee folded on the Flop
Seat 2: BoCarlon folded on the Flop
Seat 3: slappysilly1 folded on the Flop
Seat 4: AsIAm folded on the Flop
Seat 5: I.F.O folded on the Flop
Seat 6: atl.chris (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: BkFireWall (small blind) showed [6h 4h] and won ($4.62) with a
straight, Deuce to Six
Seat 8: HERO (big blind) showed [5s 5h] and lost with three of a
kind, Fives

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xbones

10-22-2004, 01:21 PM

#2 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Apr 2004

Location: Isle of Man, GB

Posts: 264

You were destined to lose this from the go, that's the trouble with microlimits, people can have anything, even at low limits this dude prob would have completed the SB. Sometime someone flops better than you. I like the aggressive play with trips tho.

YNWA

Corey

10-22-2004, 01:53 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: Oklahoma City, OK

Posts: 1,349

ewww.01 / .02 no holdem foldem table....

Corey

LeFou

10-22-2004, 02:19 PM Post subject: Re: Misplayed?

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 2,361

Yeah, here's your misplay
(PF)

Quote:

Originally Posted by nutpeddler

I.F.O: calls $0.02
atl.chris: folds
BkFireWall: calls $0.01
HERO: checks

You should have lost more money on this hand, and simultaneously made opp win LESS. When you're paired up at an 01/02 you need to attempt to trim it a bit. Good news is your pair is so small that if the flop misses it, it's easy to fold UTG+1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nutpeddler

*** FLOP *** [2s 3c 5d]
BkFireWall: checks
HERO: bets $0.12
...
...
BkFireWall: raises $0.38 to $0.50
HERO: raises $0.54 to $1.04

Misplay #2: you bet the pot to find out whether someone made the straight, or the draw, and a guy responds with "yes I certainly did". And you reraise him. Not good. Time to ease up; if the turn is blank to the straight you might take another shot. But there are better places to get all your money in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nutpeddler

BoCarlon: folds
BkFireWall: raises $1.24 to $2.28 and is all-in
HERO: calls $1.24

Three strikes. You're out. How many reraises does it take to put the opp on the straight?

To put it another way: what was he playing that was going to lose to you? Two-pair?

To put it another way: what did HE think YOU were betting so fast at, and still felt okay playing back at you over and over. The nuts maybe?

I'm not bashing your game. We all have brain farts. Morals of this story:

-If you have top set, and it's somewhat low, proceed with caution because there are straight draws.
-Proceeding with caution has the advantage of keeping people in. You're 33% to make a boat and stop stressing about the straight, so you need 2 callers for pot odds.

Reminds me of a bit in super/system that I found surprising:
If you have AA, and set them, there is always a straight draw. Think about it.

nutpeddler

10-22-2004, 03:19 PM Post subject: thoughts

#5 (permalink)

Join Date: May 2004

Posts: 4

IMO, my only major mistake was calling his last reraise.

It's not a mistake to limp with a low pocket pair looking to hit a set.

On the flop I hit top set, and he bet. It is a clear 'reraise or fold' situation and I don't see how you can fold at this point. It would be pretty weak to just give him credit for the straight and fold.

Honestly I put him on 2 pair / lower set. When he came back at me again I probably should have folded. At that point I was pretty worried about the straight, but not positive and I still had outs.

mike4066

10-22-2004, 03:24 PM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2003

Posts: 1,943

If you flop a set and lose, you lose alot of money.
If you flop a set, lose and don't lose alot of money you played it wrong.

You have top set, push hard on the flop. The only difference is that I would have went all-in to his raise.

He could have an over pair such as 88. Ax and matched his kicker.

I would have done the the same and lost the same amount of chips.

You also we're drawing dead either, on the flop you had 7 outs, on the turn 10. If i'm not all-in on the flop with a set, I definatly want to TRY and see a river, sometimes we know thats not possibe, but I'm somewhere around 4.5:1 to make a full boat on the turn/river.

lonnie

10-22-2004, 04:11 PM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 923

I would have lost all of my chips on that hand too. It's hard to put him on a flopped straight . He could have a lower set than you, or maybe even a big pocket pair. Who knows?

You gotta get your chips in on this hand, even if you think you MIGHT be behind. You usually won't be behind, but if you are, you still have a ton of outs to make a full house or 4 of a kind.

Tough beat.

The blind to stack ratio in the .01/.02 limit game is pretty huge. You can sit with a max of 5.00, which is 250 BB. I would consider ALWAYS raising 3-5 BB on ANY playable hand. It's almost worth limping with anything in these games with the blinds so low, as witnessed by the monster pot this guy pulls down with 6

You gotta make these guys pay more to see a flop anytime you decide to play a hand.

LeFou

10-22-2004, 09:17 PM Post subject: Re: thoughts

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 2,361

Quote:

Originally Posted by nutpeddler

On the flop I hit top set, and he bet. It is a clear 'reraise or fold' situation and I don't see how you can fold at this point. It would be pretty weak to just give him credit for the straight and fold.

Correction: on the flop you hit top set, and YOU bet.
*** FLOP *** [2s 3c 5d]
BkFireWall: checks
HERO: bets $0.12

Opp reraised. No you don't give up and fold. You're not beaten. But you have competition. Respect it.

LeFou

10-22-2004, 09:24 PM

#9 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 2,361

Quote:

Originally Posted by lhoney2

It's almost worth limping with anything in these games with the blinds so low, as witnessed by the monster pot this guy pulls down with 6

You gotta make these guys pay more to see a flop anytime you decide to play a hand.

I consider 64 suited playable from any position. Yes I will call a modest PF raise (<10% of my stack) with it.

This is not a bad beat. It's a set that went bad. Learn from it.

Fnord

10-22-2004, 09:39 PM

#10 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,334

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Anyone who folds this hand at any point is either pissing money away in the long run or trying to sound like a good poker player and failing miserably.

Putting him on the straight is silly. You're either way ahead here or have enough outs to gamble. Get all your money in as fast as you can. This is what No-Limit poker is all about.

Next time don't post results right away and you'll get less of this bullshit results-oriented advice. You didn't see his cards when you made your decisions. Why should these losers?

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeFou

I consider 64 suited playable from any position. Yes I will call a modest PF raise (<10% of my stack) with it.

You're just full of pearls of wisdom today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

DrNoChance

10-22-2004, 11:05 PM

#11 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2004

Posts: 411

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeFou

I consider 64 suited playable from any position. Yes I will call a modest PF raise (<10% of my stack) with it.

64s might be a decent implied odds hand, but it's not worth calling any significant % of your stack if you are raised. How often do you flop a flush/2 pair/str8 with it? Not that often. When you get to see a multiway flop cheap, then suited 1-gappers can have a little value.

About the only implied odds hands worth calling PF raises of even 5% of your stack are baby pairs IMO.

nutpeddler

10-23-2004, 05:23 PM

#12 (permalink)

Join Date: May 2004

Posts: 4

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

I agree, except that at the time I remember have a 'gut feeling' that he had the straight when he went all-in. I had raised it to a buck and then he reraised it another buck - he obviously had something good. But he could easily have just had AA and was playing it really strong, as people tend to do. Folding was not an option, given that I still had outs for boat.

One thing I was wondering about though is how the depth of your/their stack should influence how you play a hand like this. How much is it worth gambling on a single hand when your playing with a 250BB stack? 500BB?

Granted this is .01/.02 so it's not much money, but abstract it to just chips.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Next time don't post results right away and you'll get less of this bullshit results-oriented advice. You didn't see his cards when you made your decisions. Why should these losers?

Heh, good point. But I appreciate everyone's feedback. I don't feel too bad about how I played this hand now. And I more than won the money back on a similar hand that went my way. 8-)

PokerStars Game #789716273: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02) -
2004/10/21 - 23:49:23 (ET)
Table 'Atossa' Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: DIREWOLF817 ($1.13 in chips)
Seat 2: OYSTERS ($1.94 in chips)
Seat 3: ryancanfly ($0.98 in chips)
Seat 4: Max Power222 ($3.93 in chips)
Seat 5: HERO ($2.53 in chips)
Seat 7: gimmemyloot ($1.62 in chips)
Seat 8: dannyrobins ($0.58 in chips)
Seat 9: drfunk0486 ($2.02 in chips)
DIREWOLF817: posts small blind $0.01
OYSTERS: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [Th Ts]
ryancanfly: calls $0.02
Max Power222: calls $0.02
HERO: raises $0.04 to $0.06
gimmemyloot: calls $0.06
dannyrobins: folds
drfunk0486: calls $0.06
DIREWOLF817: folds
OYSTERS: calls $0.04
ryancanfly: calls $0.04
Max Power222: calls $0.04
*** FLOP *** [Tc 9s 5c]
OYSTERS: checks
ryancanfly: checks
Max Power222: bets $0.10
HERO: raises $0.40 to $0.50
gimmemyloot: calls $0.50
drfunk0486: folds
OYSTERS: folds
OYSTERS is sitting out
ryancanfly: folds
Max Power222: calls $0.40
*** TURN *** [Tc 9s 5c] [Ah]
Max Power222: checks
HERO: bets $1.97 and is all-in
gimmemyloot: calls $1.06 and is all-in
Max Power222: calls $1.97
*** RIVER *** [Tc 9s 5c Ah] [5d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Max Power222: shows [Td 8h] (two pair, Tens and Fives)
HERO: shows [Th Ts] (a full house, Tens full of Fives)
HERO collected $1.77 from side pot
gimmemyloot: mucks hand
HERO collected $4.80 from main pot
Max Power222 said, "vn"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $6.87 Main pot $4.80. Side pot $1.77. | Rake $0.30
Board [Tc 9s 5c Ah 5d]
Seat 1: DIREWOLF817 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: OYSTERS (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 3: ryancanfly folded on the Flop
Seat 4: Max Power222 showed [Td 8h] and lost with two pair, Tens and
Fives
Seat 5: HERO showed [Th Ts] and won ($6.57) with a full house,
Tens full of Fives
Seat 7: gimmemyloot mucked [8d 7s] - a pair of Fives
Seat 8: dannyrobins folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: drfunk0486 (button) folded on the Flop

LeFou

10-24-2004, 07:17 PM

#13 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 2,361

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Anyone who folds this hand at any point is either pissing money away in the long run or trying to sound like a good poker player and failing miserably.

Putting him on the straight is silly. .

I don't want to fight, Fnord. I don't doubt for a second that you're a better player than I am. And seeing the results was a distinct advantage.

That said,

-It is damn-near impossible to fold a set in a raised pot.
-In an unraised pot, it's easier but still very difficult to fold a set.
-It is not as hard, though, to slow down a bit. There are seven people in this hand and a clear straight draw.

I wouldn't have folded. But at the reraise I think I would start looking for pot odds to complete the boat.

LeFou

10-24-2004, 07:26 PM

#14 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 2,361

To prove I don't want to fight I have changed from a kickboxer to a peace person.

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