Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

REGISTER
Subscribe to FTR web feed
Already Registered?      Username:    Password:   Remember      Forgot Password

Poker Forum

  > 

Full Ring NL Hold'em

  > 

I cant calculate pot odds on the fly......

  
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
BobbySalami
Old 06-29-2005, 10:56 PM     Post subject: I cant calculate pot odds on the fly...... #1 (permalink)  
BobbySalami's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Limbo
Posts: 433
BobbySalami
Passive table...thought more limpers would come in behind me.

With the OESD on the flop and those bets before me, I tried to determine what my odds were there if a call was worth it.....however I am not very good at trying to do this math on the fly...then I was running out of time so I just folded. Any suggestions?

Dealer: Hand #143278875
Dealer: cashgarage has 5 seconds left to act
Dealer: cashgarage posts the small blind of $0.05
Dealer: Buckeye1959 posts the big blind of $0.10
Dealer: You have been dealt [7h 8h]
Dealer: bunman100 folds
Dealer: berry03 calls $0.10
Dealer: funplay1 calls $0.10
Dealer: BobbySalami calls $0.10
Dealer: MyJewishLife folds
Dealer: Buttman_71 folds
Dealer: spidey23 folds
Dealer: cashgarage calls $0.05
Dealer: Buckeye1959 checks
Dealer: The flop is [9d 6h Kd]
Dealer: cashgarage bets $0.50
Dealer: Buckeye1959 folds
Dealer: berry03 calls $0.50
Dealer: funplay1 folds
Dealer: BobbySalami has 15 seconds left to act
Dealer: BobbySalami folds
Dealer: The turn is [8c]
Dealer: cashgarage bets $1.50
Dealer: berry03 calls $1.50
Dealer: The river is [Qs]
Dealer: cashgarage bets $4.50
Dealer: berry03 calls $4.50
Dealer: Buckeye1959 is sitting out
Dealer: cashgarage shows two pair, Nines and Sixes
Dealer: berry03 mucks
Dealer: cashgarage wins the pot ($12.85) with two pair, Nines and Sixes
Reply With Quote

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
lowBoy
Old 06-29-2005, 11:18 PM #2 (permalink)  
Flush

Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 513
lowBoy
What usually takes too long, figuring out your chance of hitting, or dividing bet by the amount that's in the pot? If it's the second, you should look for a table that gives approximate fraction-to-percentages and find the closest fraction to your situation...

I usually just knock the numbers about quickly until something falls into place. Take a $14 bet into a $63 pot. That's close to $15 into a $60 pot, which is 25%. Then I figure that my pot odds are slightly better than that, because in my calculations I increased the bet to me and decreased the pot size, making it something like 23%. (it's actually 22.222222...%). Although, this isn't the most accurate method...
Reply With Quote
BobbySalami
Old 06-29-2005, 11:22 PM #3 (permalink)  
BobbySalami's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Limbo
Posts: 433
BobbySalami
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowBoy
What usually takes too long, figuring out your chance of hitting, or dividing bet by the amount that's in the pot? If it's the second, you should look for a table that gives approximate fraction-to-percentages and find the closest fraction to your situation...

I usually just knock the numbers about quickly until something falls into place. Take a $14 bet into a $63 pot. That's close to $15 into a $60 pot, which is 25%. Then I figure that my pot odds are slightly better than that, because in my calculations I increased the bet to me and decreased the pot size, making it something like 23%. (it's actually 22.222222...%). Although, this isn't the most accurate method...
Yeah, its the math with the pot that takes me too long to decide......I have trouble calculating the percent of my bet into the pot and then thinking about the percent to hit my hand before my hand is folded from timing out......

I mean, i can do it now looking back at it, but it takes me too damned long to do it in the moment
Reply With Quote
EricE
Old 06-29-2005, 11:27 PM #4 (permalink)  
Full House

Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 894
EricE
You could use something like this.
http://www.texasholdem-poker.com/pot...calculator.php
Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2005, 11:33 PM #5 (permalink)  
Guest

Posts: n/a
Texas Calculatem calculates live odds for you, I think you have to buy it though.

http://www.calculatem.com/
Reply With Quote
Surf_Thug
Old 06-29-2005, 11:40 PM #6 (permalink)  
Surf_Thug's Avatar
Straight

Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 215
Surf_Thug
I'm still trying to become quick at it also..

I do kind of what the first guy says, I get just a rough estimate. Considering your playing NL and implied odds are the arguably more important than pot odds, a rough estimate will usually work, considering a large chunk of your analysis is going to be on implied odds anyways.

I think if you were playing Limit an exact pot odds figure instantly would be more crucial than in no-limit.
Currently Playing 8 Tables of 25NL 10-Max.
Or
2 Tables of 100NL 10-Max

Current Bankroll: $625

Goal: To stop pulling $$$ out of my bankroll and build it up to 1k.
 
Reply With Quote
Bmxicle
Old 06-29-2005, 11:41 PM #7 (permalink)  
Bmxicle's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 947
Bmxicle
Send a message via AIM to Bmxicle
Have you tried thinking of it in terms of fractions, thats generally easier, you are getting a bit worse than 3:1 there on your money there.

I just put it into units of the size of the bet. so say a pot is 50 dollars and someone bets 20 dollars, that makes the pot 70 dollars and i have to call 20. There are 3.5 20 dollar units in the pot so i'm getting 3.5 to 1 on my money. Also i would always call there because of implied odds. It makes it easier this way, because you can generally just count the number of callers, divide the pot up into the same units and then figure it out pretty quick.
 
Reply With Quote
bair
Old 06-29-2005, 11:43 PM #8 (permalink)  
bair's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 953
bair
multiply the number of outs you have after the flop by 4, that gives you a rough estimate of your chance of hitting with 2 cards to come. for 1 card to come multiply it by 2.

flush draw = 9 outs = 9x4 = 36%
OESD = 8 outs = 8x4 = 32%

sometimes percentages are easier to work with than odds

so pretty much you know ur percent to hit within 1 second of thinking, then you have the rest of the time to calculate the pot odds, which shouldnt be that hard, round to an easy number, and make it into an easy simplifiable fraction
Reply With Quote
BobbySalami
Old 06-30-2005, 12:28 AM #9 (permalink)  
BobbySalami's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Limbo
Posts: 433
BobbySalami
Quote:
Originally Posted by bair
multiply the number of outs you have after the flop by 4, that gives you a rough estimate of your chance of hitting with 2 cards to come. for 1 card to come multiply it by 2.

flush draw = 9 outs = 9x4 = 36%
OESD = 8 outs = 8x4 = 32%

sometimes percentages are easier to work with than odds

so pretty much you know ur percent to hit within 1 second of thinking, then you have the rest of the time to calculate the pot odds, which shouldnt be that hard, round to an easy number, and make it into an easy simplifiable fraction
Okay, I cand do that part pretty quickly which has been what I've been doing prior, however I like how BMXicle put it, that would seem easy to do.

But since im not great at math, how do I convert my Percentage to hit my hand to the pot odds I am getting.....Like if I am 32% in this case, and my odds are 3:1...how do I look at these the same?

Thanks
If you wanna turn your daddy parts ORANGE eat some cheetos and watch some porn!

Currently sucking at life!
 
Reply With Quote
Bmxicle
Old 06-30-2005, 12:54 AM #10 (permalink)  
Bmxicle's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 947
Bmxicle
Send a message via AIM to Bmxicle
Just divide it up into units just the same. 100%/32 is approximately equal to three. That means 1 of those units you will hit (33%) and two of those units you wont, so you have a 2:1 chance of hitting your hand. Alot of the odds of hitting hands you will memorize over time, like i don't do much math when it comes to figuring out how often my hand will hit because i already know most of it.
 
Reply With Quote
BobbySalami
Old 06-30-2005, 01:15 AM #11 (permalink)  
BobbySalami's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Limbo
Posts: 433
BobbySalami
Great!...thanks a lot! This will help with my math...I will probably write out a chart I can reference for certain draws until I memorize them.

Thanks again!

EDIT: so just to clarify, a call on the flop there is g00t?
Reply With Quote
bair
Old 06-30-2005, 02:20 AM #12 (permalink)  
bair's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 953
bair
yes its good, but just barely, if the other guy wouldnt have called it wouldn't have been good.
Reply With Quote
BobbySalami
Old 06-30-2005, 02:46 AM #13 (permalink)  
BobbySalami's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Limbo
Posts: 433
BobbySalami
Quote:
Originally Posted by bair
yes its good, but just barely, if the other guy wouldnt have called it wouldn't have been good.
Sorry, geting confused again. Say that other guy didnt call, For OESD your odds are 2:1, with 1 dollar in the pot if the other guy DOESN'T call, a 0.50 call would be 2:1 wouldn't it?

Sorry if I suck at math.....
If you wanna turn your daddy parts ORANGE eat some cheetos and watch some porn!

Currently sucking at life!
 
Reply With Quote
lowBoy
Old 06-30-2005, 04:58 AM #14 (permalink)  
Flush

Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 513
lowBoy
Quote:
Originally Posted by bair
multiply the number of outs you have after the flop by 4, that gives you a rough estimate of your chance of hitting with 2 cards to come.
I've read that this can be a misleading way to think about it though because there's another round of betting in between the turn and river. Maybe it's not as bad as what I remember reading proposed, but I generally only count my outs down to the river if I'm going AI.

Now that I think about it, am I losing EV this way? Is it worth it to count odds in terms of the next two cards if you're not planning on pushing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbySalami
For OESD your odds are 2:1, with 1 dollar in the pot if the other guy DOESN'T call, a 0.50 call would be 2:1 wouldn't it?
Yup, that's right. Also, I tried to explain what bmxicle is talking about, but it didn't come out right... I do that as well a lot of the time, think about the number of bets and the pot size.
Reply With Quote
Fleece
Old 06-30-2005, 09:14 AM #15 (permalink)  
Guest

Posts: n/a
just memorize chances of hitting draw

OESD is slightly better then 5:1 with 1 card to come (17%)and slightly worse then 2:1 with 2 cards (32%)

remember that 2:1 = 33% 3:1 = 25% 4:1 = 20% 5:1 = 16%

now look at pot size and bet size which is .50 to 1.50 = 3:1. chances of hitting are 5:1

now look at stack sizes in relation to urs if there big call if not fold (implied odds almost always mean a call is correct)
Reply With Quote
Fleece
Old 06-30-2005, 09:27 AM #16 (permalink)  
Guest

Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbySalami
Quote:
Originally Posted by bair
yes its good, but just barely, if the other guy wouldnt have called it wouldn't have been good.
Sorry, geting confused again. Say that other guy didnt call, For OESD your odds are 2:1, with 1 dollar in the pot if the other guy DOESN'T call, a 0.50 call would be 2:1 wouldn't it?

Sorry if I suck at math.....
OESD odds are not 2:1 becuase u expect there to be action on the turn making ur pot odds calculations go poof so always calculate odds for only 1 card to come unless ur going all in. so ur odds for OESD are 5:1 not 2:1 making a call with pot odds at 2:1 very bad unless u expect the pot to be more then $3 if u showdown (implied odds)
Reply With Quote
BIGandRICH
Old 06-30-2005, 11:59 AM #17 (permalink)  
BIGandRICH's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Jazz Club
Posts: 419
BIGandRICH
until i knew the odds properly i had a little chart stuck on my monitor.. it looked like this

odds to hit on the next card

trips - hits 1/25
gutshot - hits 1/12
pair with 2 overs - hits 1/8
OESD - hits 1/6
flush - hits 1/5
flush+gutshot - hits 1/4
flush+OESD - hits 1/3

to work out if i have good odds i round there bet to an easy figure to work with and muliply it by the applicable number from the chart, call if the result is less than or =to the pot.

texascalculatem works well if your not quick enough with the maths, it gives you odds of not only your hand but odds of what the others might have, and gives you advice. but it does cost money.

gl learning it all
villain goes AI
i call with a set (i have him owned)
i win pot
villain: **** this, this site is bullshit, ******* rigged, suck out ****
 
Reply With Quote
BobbySalami
Old 06-30-2005, 08:54 PM #18 (permalink)  
BobbySalami's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Limbo
Posts: 433
BobbySalami
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleece
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbySalami
Quote:
Originally Posted by bair
yes its good, but just barely, if the other guy wouldnt have called it wouldn't have been good.
Sorry, geting confused again. Say that other guy didnt call, For OESD your odds are 2:1, with 1 dollar in the pot if the other guy DOESN'T call, a 0.50 call would be 2:1 wouldn't it?

Sorry if I suck at math.....
OESD odds are not 2:1 becuase u expect there to be action on the turn making ur pot odds calculations go poof so always calculate odds for only 1 card to come unless ur going all in. so ur odds for OESD are 5:1 not 2:1 making a call with pot odds at 2:1 very bad unless u expect the pot to be more then $3 if u showdown (implied odds)
AHAH!.....This is were I was getting confused!

Now lemme think out loud to make sure I have a firm grasp of this.....Say the first guy bet the $0.50 but was All-In, second guy folded....then this would be a correct call since i get the next two cards for $0.50 correct?

Also if they both had called, but they had huge stacks a call is good here due to good implied odds.....

Everything else fold......

Yay, do I got it now?

Thanks for helping a n00b out everyone!
Reply With Quote
Fleece
Old 06-30-2005, 10:48 PM #19 (permalink)  
Guest

Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbySalami
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleece
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbySalami
Quote:
Originally Posted by bair
yes its good, but just barely, if the other guy wouldnt have called it wouldn't have been good.
Sorry, geting confused again. Say that other guy didnt call, For OESD your odds are 2:1, with 1 dollar in the pot if the other guy DOESN'T call, a 0.50 call would be 2:1 wouldn't it?

Sorry if I suck at math.....
OESD odds are not 2:1 becuase u expect there to be action on the turn making ur pot odds calculations go poof so always calculate odds for only 1 card to come unless ur going all in. so ur odds for OESD are 5:1 not 2:1 making a call with pot odds at 2:1 very bad unless u expect the pot to be more then $3 if u showdown (implied odds)
AHAH!.....This is were I was getting confused!

Now lemme think out loud to make sure I have a firm grasp of this.....Say the first guy bet the $0.50 but was All-In, second guy folded....then this would be a correct call since i get the next two cards for $0.50 correct?

Also if they both had called, but they had huge stacks a call is good here due to good implied odds.....

Everything else fold......

Yay, do I got it now?

Thanks for helping a n00b out everyone!
yea that pretty much sums it up
Reply With Quote
elipsesjeff
Old 06-30-2005, 10:55 PM #20 (permalink)  
elipsesjeff's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
elipsesjeff is an unknown quantity at this point
 There are really only four different set out outs to realize, everything is added up for argument sake.

You have:

The flush draw
The OESD draw

In LHE, you aren't folding any of these for any bets on the flop. IN NL, you need to make sure you are getting 3/1 to call.

The Gutshot draw

You need roughly 8-1 calling a gutshot draw on the flop with implied odds figured in. In NL, you can probably go as low as 6-1 because you can go all-in.

The Middle pair draw. A little better than the gutshot and a lot worse than a flush draw. Again, I would say 6-1 to call.

All the other draws you really dont need the odds for as its fairly simple to tell if you are ahead or behind. Some experience will help this out.


Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com

More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.
 
Reply With Quote
Fnord
Old 06-30-2005, 11:04 PM #21 (permalink)  
Fnord's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via MSN to Fnord
You're leaving out common combination draws. Quite often if you look hard enough you can find extra outs...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Latest Poker News
KoRnholio Old 05-26-2012, 03:08 PM    Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ...

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:01 AM.

Contact Us - Archive - Top

FTR Testimonials

All content
© FlopTurnRiver.com 		Advertising  |   Partners  |   Testimonials  |   T&C  |   Contact Us  |   FTR News & Press  |   Site Map  |   Search FTR

Full Tilt  |   Titan Poker  |   UltimateBet  |   Poker Stars  |   Ladbrokes Bonus  |   Sportsbook  |   Cake Poker  

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum
This is not a gambling website.