Who else wants to know the secret about trading? {nsfw oogabooga)

[mr0033]

Hi, I hope you're interested in this topic. Something big is going on at the website Oil Trading Academy. I think there is a secret out about oil, that it's rigged by a computer, and they are making fortunes there.

Anybody hear about all of this? Do you think it could really be true?

Thanks for any info.

[OngBonga]

They're making a fortune off soil? I don't believe you.

[BennyLaRue]

Oil is rigged by a computer? A computer that makes fortunes?

Fucking comptuers.

[BennyLaRue]

Secret Oil Fortune: "You will be successful in whatever you do"

[OngBonga]

Benny, who is your favourite sexy lady?

[BennyLaRue]

Benny, who is your favourite sexy lady?

My wife, ldo.

[OngBonga]

Well, a google image search for "Benny's wife" resulted in this...



I doubt that's gonna get me some +rep off an influencial member. Damn.

[kiwiMark]

OIL

RIGS

OIL RIGS

OIL RIGGED

POKER RIGGED

RIGGED OIL

RIGGING

PIRATES

PIRATES

PIRATES

[kiwiMark]

^I'm hoping to get srslysirius to autotune this and put it to music for me.

[rpm]

you, sir, just earned yourself 1 +rep point. congratulations. and good luck on your quest in beating benny the roo to reputational glory (yes i'm aware that is quite probably not a real word. too tired to care)

edit: i lied. i gotta spread some rep around before i give it you again, i'm told.

[BennyLaRue]

Why do we have to beat each other? I assure you half of Kiwi's rep is from me (because I'm so damn influential).

[kiwiMark]

and vice versa

[BennyLaRue]

and vice versa

Inorite?

I mean, we're not talking about bigred here.

[Jack Sawyer]

Oil speculating is the reason gas prices are so high.

I hope oil speculators die fiery deaths, cooked in the very same oil they speculate on.

[rpm]

Why do we have to beat each other? I assure you half of Kiwi's rep is from me (because I'm so damn influential).

i was kidding brah. i just remembered someone telling kiwi in some other thread to step up his game because you had gained an extra green square on him. i just wanted to boost his morale. didn't want him getting disheartened, that's all.

tl;dr: kiwi is from new zealand. he needs all the help he can get.

[OngBonga]

I don't want to beat anybody, I'm happy with one green box, and the only reason for this is so when I rep people it makes a difference to their status. I pretend to not care about this rep thing, but I feel sad when I look at my red box. Sad. I'm welling up. It's like I've lost a pet or something.

Oh, and I'm sorry about the thread hijack. Like I'm sorry when my 22 cracks aces.

[rpm]

don't the opinions of red-boxers count towards others' rep?

[OngBonga]

No, shotglass left me some +rep for the arse I posted in the tilt thread, and my score remained -25.

It's now up to -12 thanks to you lovely people. I like this thread more than the whiny thread. When I'm green again, I'm sharing the love around, everyone in this thread gets +rep.

[BennyLaRue]

I don't want to beat anybody

That's very realistic of you.

[OngBonga]

I don't set high targets for myself. So long as I can beat 2nl and beat spoon at chess, I'm happy.

[Numbr2intheWorld]

Oil speculating is the reason gas prices are so high.

I hope oil speculators die fiery deaths, cooked in the very same oil they speculate on.

I didn't read the article but this is absolutely not true. Oil Speculators actually help keep oil prices as close to their fair value as possible and allow Gas companies to hedge their risk. Speculators are keeping prices down. If we didn't have them you'd Oil prices fluctuate rapidly to the point where Gas companies would have to always overcharge in order to not get screwed.

[wufwugy]

I didn't read the article but this is absolutely not true. Oil Speculators actually help keep oil prices as close to their fair value as possible and allow Gas companies to hedge their risk. Speculators are keeping prices down. If we didn't have them you'd Oil prices fluctuate rapidly to the point where Gas companies would have to always overcharge in order to not get screwed.

Okay I really wanna read a source/explanation on this

[a500lbgorilla]

Okay I really wanna read a source/explanation on this

It's true in principle. Oil Speculators stabilize pricing and are an overall market good. But just like unions are good in principle, application is sometimes a bitch.

[KoRnholio]

I like this thread more than the whiny thread.

I should neg you for derailing and dissing my thread!

[a500lbgorilla]

I should neg you for derailing and dissing my thread!

Let your anger flow through you. It will make you strong. People will respect you, and ladies will give you 7 digit fake numbers for a change.

[OngBonga]

I should neg you for derailing and dissing my thread!

Yeah, but on the flip side, I did spark some life into your thread, and I posted some nice arse. Plus I love the Beavis & Butthead film. Plus I just got some +rep to get rid of my red box, which made me happy again. And since you are in this thread now, you have some +rep coming your way as soon as I'm green again.

So, please don't.

Maybe if I post more arse you'll be nice.

edited - nice arse removed

[wufwugy]

It's true in principle. Oil Speculators stabilize pricing and are an overall market good. But just like unions are good in principle, application is sometimes a bitch.

That's only one side of the coin. The other is how bubbles are created.

[Jack Sawyer]

One article that breaks down what I'm saying
YouTube - ‪Banks Behind High Gas Prices?‬‏


If you are too lazy to click that one link, here's a play-by-play;
The masters of deception and thievery, Goldman Sachs:

Long-term commodity bull Goldman Sachs (GS.N) warned clients on Monday to lock-in trading profits before oil and other markets reverse, with the bank's estimates suggesting speculators are boosting crude prices as much as $27 a barrel.

Article
Goldman spooks oil speculators with call to take profit | Reuters


And then we go to the lack of regulation of over-the-counter trades. After the yoyo-ing of gas prices in '07 and '08, investigators found that 81% of gas contracts on the New York Mercantile Exchange were in the hands of speculators, 11% were in the hand of just one company. This is obviously a Very Bad Thing.

The article that goes in detail on this is available here fyp:
Oil Speculators: Manipulative Evil Masterminds or Just Savvy Investors? - DailyFinance

Washington Post article on what the investigators found:
A Few Speculators Dominate Vast Market for Oil Trading - washingtonpost.com

I didn't read the article but this is absolutely not true. Oil Speculators actually help keep oil prices as close to their fair value as possible and allow Gas companies to hedge their risk. Speculators are keeping prices down. If we didn't have them you'd Oil prices fluctuate rapidly to the point where Gas companies would have to always overcharge in order to not get screwed.

Okay I really wanna read a source/explanation on this

This +1, as the kids nowadays say

[BennyLaRue]

lol, soil

[OngBonga]

Who negged me saying "Does the thread say NSFW"?

Quote from main page...

FTR Community (16 Viewing)
All off-topic miscellany. Our lounge. WARNING: Topics within may contain images or links not safe for work (NSFW).
Moderators: a500lbgorilla

So, suck my farts, buttfucker. Don't come in the commune while at work if it's an issue.

Have MOAR...

edited - nice arse removed

[givememyleg]

OngBonga, please stop posting asses in threads not marked nsfw. I know what the thingy says. It's just better for everyone if nsfw is marked.

[bikes]

crop the damn pic ffs

[rong]

How can you Bitch at ongs pics when nobody says a thing about wufs sigs?

[wufwugy]

because you can disable sigs

also i dont post flat asses

[jyms]

Most people at work have sigs turned off

[rong]

you can disable sigs? Cool

[BennyLaRue]

You can disable images too. I do, because everyone knows reading is way cooler than...seeing things.

[boost]

You can disable images too. I do, because everyone knows reading is way cooler than...seeing things.

A thousand words can paint a lot of pictures..

[Numbr2intheWorld]

The onion conundrum: no futures market, high volatility - Jun. 27, 2008

[Numbr2intheWorld]

In before wufwugy's conspiracy theories

[Numbr2intheWorld]

Do you guys know what a futures market is?

[philly and the phanatics]

i have no idea but isnt it where you are buying the stock at a future price now. So instead of buying a stock that you think will rise, you buy one that you think will fall?!? idk i have no idea about stocks just guessing

[OngBonga]

Ok I can accept moderators telling me how to behave in their forum, even if I disagree.

[OngBonga]

Oh, and it was deliberately big because I wanted to annoy whoever it was that negged me for it. I figured you red blooded men would appreciate it, it seems only one person likes hot arse.

Also, Dan said exactly what I was thinking. Bunch of hypocritical wankers.

[philly and the phanatics]

im pretty sure peoples work arent going to be thrilled about you being on a poker site at all, regardless of scantily clad women

[wufwugy]

The onion conundrum: no futures market, high volatility - Jun. 27, 2008

Thanks for the link. Any finance professors who run regular blogs that discuss this stuff? Only stuff I keep up to date on is econ, which isn't finance

[OngBonga]

im pretty sure peoples work arent going to be thrilled about you being on a poker site at all, regardless of scantily clad women

Quite.

I've deleted most of this post because I don't want to be an arsehole.

[Galapogos]

im pretty sure peoples work arent going to be thrilled about you being on a poker site at all, regardless of scantily clad women

No shit. What jobs are these that don't care if you're wasting company time but get mad once a chick's ass is involved?

[rong]

Quite.

I've deleted most of this post because I don't want to be an arsehole.

I preferred the original

[OngBonga]

I preferred the original

A rant is always entertaining, but at least you know what it said, whereas most people will be feeling like they're missing out now! I was being an arsehole, which is not good, especially since I'm moaning at people for being an arsehole to me.

[MSG85]

The onion conundrum: no futures market, high volatility - Jun. 27, 2008

I don't know enough about the subject to form much of an educated opinion either way about futures trading, but comparing oil and onions seems bizarre to me.


One is a seasonal, expireable, and optional product whose supply can heavily be affected by weather. The other has a supply chain that is strictly controlled and manipulated by its producers and is the lifeblood of every modern economy in the world.


Also, just glancing at the chart I think I need to know more about the source of the numbers. The fact that the onions spike once a year, every year, in the first quarter of every year, may have more to do with winter in the norther hemisphere than pricing efficiency provided by the futures market.

I' think seeing a chart of onions vs a few similar root vegetables would be a more accurate and useful comparison.

Finally, there is a reason the onions are not on the commodities market any more:
Time Magazine 1956: "COMMODITIES: Odorous Onions"

[givememyleg]

im pretty sure peoples work arent going to be thrilled about you being on a poker site at all, regardless of scantily clad women

prob not, but it's much easier for someone to glance at your screen and see an ass to be disappoint.

[Numbr2intheWorld]

I don't know enough about the subject to form much of an educated opinion either way about futures trading, but comparing oil and onions seems bizarre to me.


One is a seasonal, expireable, and optional product whose supply can heavily be affected by weather. The other has a supply chain that is strictly controlled and manipulated by its producers and is the lifeblood of every modern economy in the world.


Also, just glancing at the chart I think I need to know more about the source of the numbers. The fact that the onions spike once a year, every year, in the first quarter of every year, may have more to do with winter in the norther hemisphere than pricing efficiency provided by the futures market.

I' think seeing a chart of onions vs a few similar root vegetables would be a more accurate and useful comparison.

Finally, there is a reason the onions are not on the commodities market any more:
Time Magazine 1956: "COMMODITIES: Odorous Onions"

You're right actually, my mistake, this graph is basically bullshit just because the Onion is such a sensitive crop. This is a more relevant one.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Reading the article you posted, it doesn't really make sense. If you look at the price of onions during this time you can see the price is actually fluctuating about the same when there was a futures market for Onions. Where is this abnormal dip that clearly shows manipulation?

The funny thing is the same thing is happening in India right now, except this time blaming a spike in prices on traders. LOL.

[Numbr2intheWorld]

i have no idea but isnt it where you are buying the stock at a future price now. So instead of buying a stock that you think will rise, you buy one that you think will fall?!? idk i have no idea about stocks just guessing

A Future is a contract in which someone agrees to buy a commodity at a specific price now, but will get this commodity from the seller at a future date. So if your an Onion farmer who is shipping out your crop on june 11th, you can get a set price for it now so you can feel comfortable knowing how much money you'll make during harvest.

Speculators trade around these contracts in order to try and make a profit. Because of the nature of how a market rises or falls (there needs to be a buyer and a seller), even if all speculators were in kahoots with each other they couldn't push the price of onions up because there would have to be someone who wanted to sell. If you have 10,000 speculators who want to buy onions and 0 people who wanted to sell, the price of onions would stay exactly the same. The reason speculators keep prices relatively stable is because they are constantly guessing at the correct value of onions, and trading contracts in order to take advantage of times where the value is slightly incorrect.

Farmers are much worse speculators than professionals and have less of an idea of what the true value of an onion is at a specific time.

[BennyLaRue]

I love onions. Totally underrated vegetable.

[MSG85]

You're right actually, my mistake, this graph is basically bullshit just because the Onion is such a sensitive crop. This is a more relevant one.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Reading the article you posted, it doesn't really make sense. If you look at the price of onions during this time you can see the price is actually fluctuating about the same when there was a futures market for Onions. Where is this abnormal dip that clearly shows manipulation?

The funny thing is the same thing is happening in India right now, except this time blaming a spike in prices on traders. LOL.

Sorry, I should have found a better article than that, but I thought it was cool that Time has all those old articles archived on-line.

I would guess the graph doesn't show the dramatic price depreciation due to how often the points of the graph are plotted. If they made the graph on this scale and plotted daily price fluctuations it would be near unreadable. That said, The annual first quarter price spikes do not occur during the time in question (about 48-24 months before the act is passed).

Anyway, that was just a throwaway anecdote that was stuck in my head for some reason. I don't see any reason that onions should be barred from futures trading while other produce, like potatoes, are allowed. The ban was probably just a reactionary political move to please affected constituents, but I would have to read far more about the incident than I care to in order to find out.

Farmers are much worse speculators than professionals and have less of an idea of what the true value of an onion is at a specific time.

I agree with this point, and the ideas behind the rest of your post for that matter. However, does this same statement work for the relationship between oil suppliers/refiners/companies and oil speculators as well as it does for onion farmers?