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Originally Posted by 2_Thumbs_Up
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Waaay too theoretical approach to the problem, in my opinion. Sure, I can believe everything you say but I still think you're way off.
I'll ask you a question. Besides, oil and maybe a few other limited energy resources, what do you think we'll run out of in the near future?
uranium. Besides this and oil/fossil fuels, the rest are far too inefficient. Theoretically, we can simply put a huge Windmill every square foot and produce energy, but this is way too costly to do and would require constant maintaince that would far outweigh the benefit. Hydroelectric depends on our amount of rivers and the speed at which they flow as well as the volume. This is also severly limited. Solar power is as of yet sooo inefficent that filling every square acre of the state of arizona (us) would not be enough to power the entire country and would cost an outrageous amount of money, additionally, it would require flat land which isnt exactly available in 1000 square acre fields. Again, the maintanince required is huge, and eventually would need to be entierly replaced. I cant think of much else at the moment but this should be a start.
Originally Posted by BankItDrew
Originally Posted by 2_Thumbs_Up
The amount of resources in the world are almost endless.
Nothing is almost endless. It's either finite or it's infinite.
Originally Posted by 2_Thumbs_Up
Resources are matter. The amount of matter availible to us is pretty close to endless.
Nothing is close to endless. It's either endless, or it's not.
Bad choice of words I guess. According to some recent cosmological theories though, the amount of resources are most likely infinite. It's just up to us to aquire as much of them as we can. But note that we still don't need get more and more of them in order to experience economic growth. By using the same amount of resources in a more beneficial way we'd experience the same thing.
Originally Posted by BankItDrew
Originally Posted by 2_Thumbs_Up
The statement "our need for electricity actually doubles every 10 or 12 years" is totally meaningless.
Wrong. Theoretically, one day we will not have enough space on this planet for unlimited toasters.
I think you missed my point. That statement seem to imply that we consumed more energy because all of the sudden we needed more energy. This is simply wrong. The reason we used more energy is because we managed to produce more energy. We consume whatever we manage to produce. It's our production that will limit our consumption, not the other way around.
no, its our consumption that limits our production. Lets say you eat 1-2 donuts a day and are the only customer at krispy cream donuts. Lets say that donuts go bad and become hazardous to our health after 5 days. Then, since you only consume 2-1 a day, it would be ridiculous to for krispy cream to produce more than 10 donuts in a single day, since there is no chance of them being eaten and would then become unedible and useless. Therefore, your consumption has just limited krispy cream's production.
Easier example. The playstation 3 came out a while ago, and were mass produced. Consumers however, only bought half of them. Should sony continue making playstation 3's for the fun of it? No, because the consumption of them is too low. consumption of ps3s just limited the production of them. This is simple supply and demand and is true for most things.
Originally Posted by BankItDrew
Originally Posted by 2_Thumbs_Up
these resources doesn't dissappear once we consume them.
If you can provide evidence of mass produced transitional forms of fossil fuels that have been used and then re used, I'll give you some mad props. Add in re-usable electricity once my light bulb has been lit.
I was referring to the resources I mentioned in the sentence before the one you quoted. We will run out of fossil fuels but they are replacable.
really? with what?
Originally Posted by BankItDrew
Originally Posted by 2_Thumbs_Up
if the amount of resources on the earth isn't infinite the economic value of them are...The economic value of a finite amount of resources grow
How can something that is finite also have infinite value?
Because value is subjective.
Originally Posted by BankItDrew
If the resource was infinite, it would have no value. This is exactly why things that are finite have value attached to them - because they are finite!
Resources are not merely valued by their quantity. They are also valued by the amount of work that has been put into them. For example, I value a house higher than I value a bunch of trees, even if it's the same amount of wood.
Originally Posted by BankItDrew
Originally Posted by 2_Thumbs_Up
As long as we have energy (and we will for a few million years at least), we'll be able to continously improve our standard of living.
Show me numerical proof that we will have energy for a few millions years at least, using any one of the major resources: Fossil fuels, coal, lumber, etc.
Where do you think the energy in those comes from? It's all originating from the sun. So is the energy that plants extract through photosynthesis. So is the energy in the food you eat. Fossil fuels are simply one of the many ways that nature has managed to extract and store energy from the sun. I see no reason what so ever why we won't be able to extract the same amount of energy in other ways. As long as the sun burns, we'll have energy. And as long as we have energy we will use it to improve stuff.
Yes but how do we do this? If you know a way, would you mind pm-ing me so i can patent the idea and become obscenly rich by solving our energy crisis?
Originally Posted by BankItDrew
Secondly, we will only be able to continue to improve our standard of living if one day we have ceased to increase in population.
I think we will though. Just look at the west. Our population growth has basically stagnated as our standard of living has increased to todays level. As the rest of the world catches up they'll probably experience similar effects.
isnt the point of this topic that our population growth has reached an alltime high? (im assuming west means usa)
Originally Posted by BankItDrew
Originally Posted by 2_Thumbs_Up
To think that we'll run out of resources soon is also completely wrong.
Consider population. One day, the human species will not be able to increase their population size. This is because the surface area of the earth in not infinite. Even if you believe that "resources are almost endless" (oxymoron), surface area is not.
But this has noting to do with depletion of resources. I'ts just the same amount of resources being split between an increasing amount of people.
which is obviously a problem since we have a limited number of resources that are readily usable and obtainable. Name two resources that are unlimited and i will show you a minimum of 4 websites each that prove they are in fact limited, at least in what we can feasibly obtain and use.
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