10-20-2023 02:21 PM
#31276
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10-22-2023 11:20 AM
#31277
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The imbalance of power is significant, and relevant. | |
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10-22-2023 12:12 PM
#31278
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It's getting harder to argue that Israel's response is reasonable. It seems to me that their strategy is to force the evacuation of literally everyone in the entire north of the Strip, before moving in with ground troops, killing anyone on sight. | |
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10-24-2023 06:00 AM
#31279
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10-24-2023 11:52 AM
#31280
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I know the point I'm making is not counter to the point you made in the post I've quoted, but it's a quote to give context to my point, and feel free to correct me if I've mischaracterized your argument. | |
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10-24-2023 11:56 AM
#31281
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Also, the US elected Trump once and he still has the best polling of any Rep running for the next election. | |
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10-24-2023 12:08 PM
#31282
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10-24-2023 12:10 PM
#31283
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Goddamn woke Eurolibtards, calling for people to stop killing each other! | |
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10-24-2023 12:21 PM
#31284
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10-24-2023 12:37 PM
#31285
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Another way of looking at it is this... if there were factions within Gaza that wanted to remove Hamas from power, you can rest assured Israel would be working with them. They would be armed and would ultimately succeed. That is Israel's best chance of defeating Hamas - by making their political opponents stronger than them. But what if they have no political opponents? | |
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10-24-2023 03:12 PM
#31286
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100% yes.... under the condition that their approach is non-violent, respectful of human dignity, and willing to compromise. | |
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10-24-2023 03:42 PM
#31287
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https://www.theonion.com/the-onion-s...-yo-1850922505 | |
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10-24-2023 06:38 PM
#31288
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10-24-2023 06:50 PM
#31289
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The real issue at play isn't whether Israel has the right to attempt to eliminate Hamas violently. The issue is whether Israel are doing their best to minimise civilian casualties. Issuing an evacuation order to a million people might have created a humanitarian disaster, but surely not on the scale of shelling a fully populated city. | |
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10-24-2023 08:49 PM
#31290
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I'm not naive... you're the one arguing that somehow using violence will end a cycle of violence. | |
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10-25-2023 06:35 AM
#31291
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10-25-2023 06:55 AM
#31292
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The reason I think you're being naive is because you're unwilling to acknowledge in any way that Islam is the root cause. You're blaming Israel for reactionary responses, which is fair enough, but to suggest that is the root cause is ignorant to the fact that the hatred is religiously motivated. You simply seem to refuse to accept that Islam is in any way bad. | |
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10-25-2023 09:04 AM
#31293
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10-25-2023 09:58 AM
#31294
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I don't understand why it's considered taboo to criticise an oppressive 6th century religion. Forgive me for being liberal. | |
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10-25-2023 09:59 AM
#31295
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What is it about Islam that makes it immune to criticism? | |
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10-25-2023 10:17 AM
#31296
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*7th century. | |
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10-25-2023 10:49 AM
#31297
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The problem as I see it is that otherwise intelligent people are brainwashed into thinking that any criticism of Islam is motivated by racism. In many cases it is, I don't doubt there are dribbling morons out there who despise Islam for no reason other than the fact it's a foreign religion whose adherents are mostly a different race. But that does not mean that any and all criticism is motivated by such intolerance. | |
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10-25-2023 11:13 AM
#31298
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The problem with criticizing Islam is that you're saying the 2nd most popular religion in the world, of which ~23% of humans claim to be, is one of violence and hate. | |
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10-25-2023 11:17 AM
#31299
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No religion is above criticism, but criticizing the religion is one thing. | |
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10-25-2023 11:33 AM
#31300
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SMH | |
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10-25-2023 12:29 PM
#31301
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10-25-2023 12:42 PM
#31302
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10-25-2023 12:59 PM
#31303
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I'm kinda curious how you think Israel should have responded to this incident, if not to unleash massive firepower on the perpetrators. | |
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10-25-2023 01:10 PM
#31304
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10-25-2023 01:13 PM
#31305
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If I haven't made it clear that I'm a proponent of all sides: | |
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10-25-2023 01:18 PM
#31306
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I'd not be 1/10th as upset if they did that. Unfortunately, they didn't launch an attack against the perpetrators. They launched an attack in the general direction of people who mostly had no direct connection to the terrorists who attacked them. | |
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10-25-2023 04:20 PM
#31307
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10-25-2023 05:34 PM
#31308
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Hamas was elected 18 years ago. Less than half the population of Gaza was able to vote then. So if Netanyahu is guilty of war crimes (which is the way it's looking right now), is the entire Israeli population responsible because he was democractically elected?? Hmmm.... | |
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10-25-2023 06:00 PM
#31309
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10-25-2023 06:04 PM
#31310
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Correction - the Islamic claims to this land were founded by conquest over Byzantines (Romans), not Semites. Semitic claims go back to the 2nd century BC. | |
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10-25-2023 06:15 PM
#31311
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10-26-2023 03:37 AM
#31312
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First, you're comparing the claims of a religion that didn't even exist 2000 years ago to an ethnic tribe. Well played. Second, if we are talking about tribes, does only recorded history count? How do you know the land wasn't possessed by Arabs for 100 000 years before that? | |
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10-26-2023 03:51 AM
#31313
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Obviously what I meant was you're not ONLY critisicing Islam, you're blaming everything on it. | |
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10-26-2023 05:58 AM
#31314
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10-26-2023 06:02 AM
#31315
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10-26-2023 06:12 AM
#31316
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Netanyahu might still lose power as result of this. He's already up against corruption charges that could land him in jail, if the people see this war effort as an effort to preserve his political career, that could backfire horribly on him and end up with him facing war crime charges. That might happen. | |
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10-26-2023 08:54 AM
#31317
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I wonder what we'd be arguing about if we had social media in 1944. I wonder if poop would be arguing that we shouldn't be bombing the shit out of Germany. We'd probably agree that the American nukes were a bit much, maybe. Then again I'd probably be the one opposing that while poop would say it was necessary to avoid a ground assault on Japan. We'd definitely be arguing though. | |
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10-26-2023 09:21 AM
#31318
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10-26-2023 09:23 AM
#31319
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10-26-2023 04:36 PM
#31320
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There isn't a single government in the world, other than perhaps Hamas, that has designated the Israeli government a terrorist organisation. Even Iran haven't gone this far. By all measures of international standards, the Israeli government is legitimate and not rogue. We can debate how reasonable the "rogue" bit is if you like but the fact of the matter is there is a massive difference between the warhawks in charge of Israel and the warlords in charge of Gaza. The latter's sole policy is the destruction of Israel, which they have shown is not just rhetoric. | |
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10-27-2023 01:45 AM
#31321
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Palestinians don't become terrorists because of islam, they do because they're poor and oppressed. | |
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10-27-2023 02:24 AM
#31322
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So how come those terrorists that did 9/11 were Saudis? They're filthy rich, and it's only the women and gays who are oppressed. | |
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10-27-2023 06:25 AM
#31323
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I'm confused as to why you're comparing Palestine to Saudia Arabia unless it's because you're treating Muslims as a monolithic entity. That doesn't sound like you, so please explain. | |
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10-27-2023 06:52 AM
#31324
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I didn't say that poverty and oppression are the only reason to turn to terrorism (or criminal activity, or drugs, or...), it's one of them, and I'd argue the main one when it comes to Palestinians. If Israel's borders were still at '48 or even '67 levels and Palestinians were regarded as full members of society, I doubt many of them would feel the need to start blowing shit up. They've lived all their lives in an open-air prison, which has been gradually chipped away by the settlements. If you were born and lived there, how optimistically would you view your future? How would you fight cynicism and maintain civility with your oppressors? | |
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10-27-2023 08:49 AM
#31325
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10-27-2023 09:01 AM
#31326
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Terrorism happens because of radicalism. There could be a ton of reasons why someone might be vulnerable to radicalism, including poverty, but ultimately it's ideologically motivated. People who commit acts of terrorism usually believe they are acting with the authority of God. Anyone, rich or poor, black or white, anyone is potentially a terrorist. All it takes is religiously motivated violence. | |
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10-27-2023 09:11 AM
#31327
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Just to add to this... it's kinda difficult to find examples of large scale non-Islamic terrorism. That guy who went nuts in Norway, that was terrorism, and he wasn't poor. It's not all Islamic. But Islamic terrorism is the most prolific example of ideologically motivated violence against civilians in the world today. | |
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10-27-2023 10:05 AM
#31328
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No, he argued that Palestinians become terrorists because they're poor and oppressed. You reductio ad bananum'd him to infer he was talking about all terrorists everywhere, when he implied no such thing. | |
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10-27-2023 10:11 AM
#31329
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And now you're following that up by making a gross overgeneralisation yourself by saying all terrorism is based on ideology. | |
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10-27-2023 10:36 AM
#31330
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10-27-2023 10:38 AM
#31331
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10-27-2023 10:42 AM
#31332
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In other news, Boris Johnson is joining GB News. | |
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10-27-2023 11:17 AM
#31333
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Last edited by CoccoBill; 10-27-2023 at 11:56 AM.
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10-27-2023 11:19 AM
#31334
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Last edited by CoccoBill; 10-27-2023 at 11:22 AM.
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10-27-2023 11:26 AM
#31335
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10-27-2023 12:54 PM
#31336
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Is this even a reasonable question? Let's rephrase it. | |
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10-27-2023 01:12 PM
#31337
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10-27-2023 01:29 PM
#31338
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10-27-2023 03:07 PM
#31339
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You don't want to know what might push people towards violent acts? You wouldn't want to prevent them? Yes, just punishing them afterwards sounds like a sound plan. | |
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10-28-2023 11:09 AM
#31340
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10-28-2023 05:03 PM
#31341
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If all the Jews left Israel tomorrow and were replaced by Canadians, who took over and continued doing exactly what Israel has since '48, in a couple decades we would be wondering why Palestinians have this deep rooted hatred of Canadians. | |
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10-28-2023 08:32 PM
#31342
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You're talking as though the Palestinians have a god given right to the land. Thing is, that land has been the subject of conquest over and over again throughout history. Before Israel existed, between WWI and WWII, it was British Mandate for Palestine, which was the British, under international agreement, overseeing control of the territory after the Ottoman Empire lost WWI. Before them it was the Mamluks. Before then it was a Catholic state. I could go on. | |
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10-29-2023 07:50 AM
#31343
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LOL. https://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerf...96#post2318996 | |
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10-29-2023 08:05 AM
#31344
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So... | |
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10-29-2023 08:15 AM
#31345
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And you LOL me while still talking as though Israel's de facto existence means less than Arab presence in 1947 (which was relic of conquest and colonialism in its own right). | |
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10-29-2023 09:57 AM
#31346
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Root causes of WWII go deep, but mostly it's the fact that the world tried to force Germany to pay for the destruction caused in WWI. This was cruel and unusual punishment to the people of Germany after the war was over. During the war, that's one thing. After peace is made... that's not peace. | |
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10-29-2023 10:01 AM
#31347
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And I'd like to re-inject the balance of power into this conversation. | |
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10-29-2023 11:13 AM
#31348
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You do realize the land was 95% Palestinians before WW2? Forgetting all about history and how justified any of those border changes since that has been, if you were Palestinian would you not be even a tiny bit peeved that your country has disappeared? Is it really that hard to realize that after decades of oppression and land grab this might make someone want to retaliate, justifiably or not? Remember, we were talking about reasons for someone turning to terrorism. If you still feel religion is the main cause, I don't know what to tell you. | |
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10-29-2023 11:20 AM
#31349
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I think at some point in this discussion you forgot or completely misunderstood what I was talking about. | |
Last edited by CoccoBill; 10-29-2023 at 11:24 AM.
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10-29-2023 01:47 PM
#31350
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