***Official TV sitcoms and Series recommendation thread***

[boost]

Yeah, I keep hearing that Lincoln is a good actor. I haven't seen him in anything else, so I wouldn't know-- but from his role on TWD, I would have never thought he was anything but god awful.

[Renton]

I just finished the walking dead. I am mega-disappointed at how not-bad it is given how much I was built up for it. I also caught a couple of episodes with boost when he was bunking with us in thailand and they happened to be the worst 2 or 3 episodes of the entire series (the deer sequence in season 2, specifically).

It's a decent show, passable when its at its worst and a significantly good show when its at its best. As I mentioned before, the middle of season 2 is cringeworthy bad at times, but it has definitely rebounded significantly since then and it had a fairly strong first season as well. I don't really see why it is such a polarizing show, I don't understand how anyone could view it as anything other than somewhat above mediocre. I think zombie horror buffs just pity what a missed opportunity for greatness the show is, given its excellent source material and thrilling subject matter. This is of course true, but the show still exceeds the quality of most non hbo drama.

[wufwugy]

maybe marathoning it helped. a lot of its flaws are shakespearean, but apparently a lot of people love shakespear and love the sort of disconnected-from-its-own-internal-reality characterization and plotting.

[drmcboy]

I just finished the walking dead. I am mega-disappointed at how not-bad it is given how much I was built up for it. I also caught a couple of episodes with boost when he was bunking with us in thailand and they happened to be the worst 2 or 3 episodes of the entire series (the deer sequence in season 2, specifically).

It's a decent show, passable when its at its worst and a significantly good show when its at its best. As I mentioned before, the middle of season 2 is cringeworthy bad at times, but it has definitely rebounded significantly since then and it had a fairly strong first season as well. I don't really see why it is such a polarizing show, I don't understand how anyone could view it as anything other than somewhat above mediocre. I think zombie horror buffs just pity what a missed opportunity for greatness the show is, given its excellent source material and thrilling subject matter. This is of course true, but the show still exceeds the quality of most non hbo drama.

+1, i think the bad buzz is larger than what it "should" be because many people probably tried watching TWD that do not watch much TV

[Galapogos]

Ya, people seem to expect it to be BB good or something. Those shows come around so rarely though. I think it's a fun show to watch and don't get too worked up over it when it doesn't cover every possible plot hole. I'm watching it to see zombies get fucked up and it gives me that.

[wufwugy]

It isn't about the plot holes, it's about the schizophrenia. Some of the characters make decisions that are not consistent with any previous construction. It took them 3 seasons to finally figure out they were using a token black guy. Something strange about the acting/directing/editing keeps giving us things like Daleface, Michonne-scowlface, uglycryface. The writers have very little understanding of nuance, which is demonstrated in bad things being obviously bad and good things obviously good. This sort of one-dimensional writing can be fine, but TWD is trying to pass it off as nuanced, so it doesn't work

I'm not sure I'd say people are looking for Breaking Bad. I think TWD is trying to be Sons of Anarchy, which is what it would resemble with a stronger writing staff. Granted, a lot of the show's problems are due to budget constraints. The plot must advance, and many times the writers have had their hands tied about how they can do it, so something silly is used

The makeup is incredible. Best I've seen. The cosmetics team should be proud of themselves

[wufwugy]

TWD schizophrenia: the world is constructed as realistically as possible, where zombies and the living are capable of serious killing. Unless they're attacking main characters. Also, these main characters are incapable of not hitting 100% accurate headshots while running blindfolded through an anti-gravity spinning tunnel. A red-shirt can't fight off one zombie, but a main character with an axe fights off a hundred that completely surround him

[wufwugy]

Also no shotgun. How in the fucking fuck do you make a zombie show without somebody with a freaking shotgun. That's some capital punishment worthy shit

This is not a shotgun scene (from TWD)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P224BTri7RQ

This! Is a shotgun scene (from Terminator)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...j8CUA9FZc#t=48

[d0zer]

Yeah I think all your unreality criticisms aren't so relevant because this is comic book fiction where that stuff is standard, but you're absolutely right about the lack of shotguns. daryl's crossbow is cool mind you but there needs to be some big ass motherfucker with a shotgun.

[wufwugy]

Yeah I think all your unreality criticisms aren't so relevant because this is comic book fiction where that stuff is standard, but you're absolutely right about the lack of shotguns. daryl's crossbow is cool mind you but there needs to be some big ass motherfucker with a shotgun.

I dunno, man. Terminator, Predator, Rambo. They all got the comic book feel to it and didn't have these sorts of silly things. The level of danger for the characters in those were consistent to the behavior and circumstances. The level of danger for the TWD characters has no consistency with what happens.

Honestly I'm bored of the zombies because of this. If 3dog (is it 4dog now?) can hack his way out of a dozen zombies slobbering over his back, anybody can do anything



Man now I just wanna watch 08 Rambo again. God that's the best fucking action movie ever. Everything he did was plausible in the most hardcore of badass ways

[wufwugy]

south park officially sucks. matt and trey used to be clever, now they're just reactionary

[Savy]

south park officially sucks. matt and trey used to be clever, now they're just reactionary

What makes you say that? I quite enjoyed the emo episode and the ike episode although a lot of the Canadian health care references were lost on me. The few before that have been meh but that's how South Park always is. Mostly really average with the odd fantastic episode .

[d0zer]

What makes you say that? I quite enjoyed the emo episode and the ike episode although a lot of the Canadian health care references were lost on me. The few before that have been meh but that's how South Park always is. Mostly really average with the odd fantastic episode .

I feel like season5-6 had the highest ratios of great eps : mediocre eps, and since then it's fallen off, but the ratio is still good enough that I watch every ep diligently in case of gold.

[wufwugy]

What makes you say that? I quite enjoyed the emo episode and the ike episode although a lot of the Canadian health care references were lost on me. The few before that have been meh but that's how South Park always is. Mostly really average with the odd fantastic episode .

The only funny part of the Canadian puberty ep was the Canadian puberty. They dropped the ball hard on Miley Cyrus and Obamacare

[Chelle]

just started watching american horror story, holy fuck.

i'm on season 2 now. this shit is creepy.

[ChipEaterMan]

just started watching american horror story, holy fuck.

i'm on season 2 now. this shit is creepy.

Pepper in Asylum

[boost]

Renton, dozer,

You know a show is awful when more than half of the dialogue scenes are cringe worthy.

As for the makeup-- It is good.. but it's not my favorite style. If the show took itself way less seriously, and had way more comicly awesome zombie kills, I'd like it more I think. I prefer Zombieland and 28 X Later style makeup.

[wufwugy]

^^Absolutely. The show tries to merge realism with epicness, but can't pull it off, and it would benefit greatly from going in the Tarantino/Nicholas Cage direction. The meta could help them pull off whacky things without looking whack

Not sure if posted

[d0zer]

lol daleface & zombie extras drinking water.

[Renton]

After giving it some thought, it seems like the anger directed at TWD is mostly because its a mediocre-plus show that's masquerading as an epic/great show. Like, it does smug arty stuff like cold opening flash-forwards, but since it isn't a good show like breaking bad, it comes across as blowhardish. Most of the show's grand gestures fall flat. But it's overall a very entertaining show that keeps my attention. As far as raw quality, IMO it is falls between Dexter at its peak and Lost. It basically owes everything to lost, and falls somewhat short in quality to lost.

The dialogue is certainly weak. That all the characters have a 95% headshot rate is dumb. I'd have no problem if the actual badasses on the show like Rick and Daryl got mostly headshots but the others are ridiculous, and headshots with a pistol at 80 feet away is ridiculous for anyone.

But by far the most tilting unrealism thing for me is how dumb and naive the characters are. According to the series Rick wakes up like 6 months or more after the outbreak, yet everyone he meets seems like they are just now encountering zombies for the first time, they have no experience with it and don't seem to gain experience until after Rick has met them. Not to mention the side characters like the naive young couple from last episode who seem like a complete deer in the headlights. People like that should be long dead by now. I think this problem is mainly owed to the major change from the comics, as in the comics Rick wakes up only a month after. It made absolutely no sense to change this.

[boost]

I think we wakes up weeks after the outbreak. I know it's nowhere close to 6mos. Which makes the whole Lori and Shane arc loldumb.

edit: you seem pretty confident that it's 6mos.. so maybe I'm mistaken? How would that even make sense. Who was tending to him? You still need to eat while in a coma...

[Renton]

well the cdc stuff takes place like 197 days after the outbreak. But I think theres more concrete evidence that he wakes up a long time after. And yes it makes no god damn sense.

edit: nevermind. Online resources indicate that it was about a month or so. I guess we're meant to assume that Rick was on his own for a ton of time offscreen before he found his family.

[wufwugy]

I agree TWD between Dexter and Lost, but I think Lost is still way better than TWD. Dexter is so fucking bad I start/stopped it 4 times. Every time I heard the new season was better than a previous one, I'd give it a go, but by half way through I couldn't take it anymore. TWD isn't that bad. But Lost was actually pretty good as far as character development went. It was really only with all the whack plot lines/holes/contrivances that Lost started losing a bit of ground

[boost]

I agree TWD between Dexter and Lost, but I think Lost is still way better than TWD. Dexter is so fucking bad I start/stopped it 4 times. Every time I heard the new season was better than a previous one, I'd give it a go, but by half way through I couldn't take it anymore. TWD isn't that bad. But Lost was actually pretty good as far as character development went. It was really only with all the whack plot lines/holes/contrivances that Lost started losing a bit of ground

I've never watched Dexter, but I hear it's pretty terrible. I agree with what you've said about Lost. I laugh at or cringe several times per episode of TWD.. I know there were some low moments for Lost, but I don't remember much in the way of cringe inducing scenes.

[wufwugy]

TWD would value greatly from Lost-esque flashbacks. Flashbacks are almost a must in any story that thrusts the entire cast into a situation where everything is different. The dramatic situational change will make dramatic character changes, and a fantastic way for the audience to understand and see the contrast is through flashbacks.

If I ever write a zombie book, one of the characters will be a female ruthless savvy badass killer, but the flashbacks will all be about how she was a dumb blonde who used her looks for everything. Such a fantastic character can be created out of that contrast

Imagine how much better Daryl would be if there were flashbacks showing him as a racist myopic hillbilly. That alone would actually give him some level of depth that he currently doesn't have.

[a500lbgorilla]

I don't get it. Lost sucked. It played a game where it got to borrow on a promise of amazing closure and never delivered. Dexter has been hilariously terrible for a few years now. TWD sucks. I saw the first season and I knew it was a terrible show when they detonated the Center for Disease Control. (Or really, the CDC detonated itself)

All 3 shows should be ignored.

[d0zer]

If I ever write a zombie book, one of the characters will be a female ruthless savvy badass killer, but the flashbacks will all be about how she was a dumb blonde who used her looks for everything.

...and you're the one complaining about unrealism...

[boost]

I don't get it. Lost sucked. It played a game where it got to borrow on a promise of amazing closure and never delivered. Dexter has been hilariously terrible for a few years now. TWD sucks. I saw the first season and I knew it was a terrible show when they detonated the Center for Disease Control. (Or really, the CDC detonated itself)

All 3 shows should be ignored.

Yes, in retrospect, Lost was awful, but during its run it was mostly very enjoyable. The acting was quite good for network TV, the characters may not have all been incredibly deep individually, but they represented a good spread of character tropes, which made for a dynamic show. I don't ever remember seeing effects, or multi episode stretches of the show that screamd "budget constraints!"

Sure they bait and switched us, and should never be forgiven for that, but that was simply one aspect of the show. TWD is consistently bad when reflected on, as well as from episode to episode and scene to scene.

[Renton]

Is the woman who played Lori a bad actress or does she just get shitty characters? I also hated her on the worst show of all time, prison break.

[Renton]

Also in b4 "HE TALKED ABOUT THE DEER!"

[boost]

Is the woman who played Lori a bad actress or does she just get shitty characters? I also hated her on the worst show of all time, prison break.

She's a bad actress. She's a bad character.

Also in b4 "HE TALKED ABOUT THE DEER!"

Yeah, I mean, how can you even come close to defending a show that produced this?

[wufwugy]

...and you're the one complaining about unrealism...

I'm not complaining about unrealism, but bad realism. The cult of realism isn't the only way to play, but TWD is attempting to have it both ways by trying to be both realist and fantastical in ways that don't work together.

This scene is a perfect example of merging realism and the fantastic because everything is embellished yet plausible



However, the TWD scene when 3dog was overwhelmed by zombies yet he fought his way out was an example of embellishment that had no plausibility. This all in a show that attempts high levels of plausibility. I agree with Boost that the show would benefit greatly by enhancing its fantastical elements, but it still has to do them plausibly according to what is palatable and the internal rules it creates. There are many ways to explain how Rambo pulls it off but TWD doesn't. One of them has been addressed ITT: Rambo is illustrated as an insanely talented badass, so it makes sense when he acts like one, but many TWD characters are portrayed as blundering idiots yet still get running headshots


As for my example of the dumb blonde, it's as plausible as the Walter White story. A transition from a high school cheerleader to a stone cold post-apoc survivor is on the level of an underachieving high school teacher turned meth lord supervillain

[wufwugy]

Sure they bait and switched us, and should never be forgiven for that, but that was simply one aspect of the show. TWD is consistently bad when reflected on, as well as from episode to episode and scene to scene.

This. Lost was good until the bait and switch. TWD was always kinda bad. I recall enjoying the first season though, but it's hard to not enjoy post-apoc zombies, so standards may have been lower

[wufwugy]

The real reason I watch TWD. Sadly, haven't made any more in a while

[drmcboy]

Is the woman who played Lori a bad actress or does she just get shitty characters? I also hated her on the worst show of all time, prison break.

per imdb these seem to be her only two roles of note, but some irony given this thread:

Sarah Wayne Callies

Dexter the Game (Video Game)
Debra Morgan (voice)


lol - was actual Deb too busy?




re: lost I always thought if it had just been cancelled after the season finale where (spoiler?) Ben twists the wheel and the island disappears and starts popping in different time periods it would have gone down as the GOAT unfinished show, which would have been awful but sooo much better than what we got.

[ttwarrior1]

is anyone like me. They stopped watching shows on tv and then keep saying, i will watch the series online. Next thing you know your 2 or 3 seasons behind on several shows because your doing too many things online

[rong]

I'm kinds tempted to watch lost. I only watched 3 seasons but I really enjoyed it.

Is it just the ending that disappoints or does the whole thing tail off? And if it's just the ending, is it so bad it spoils everything or just a shitty ending that doesn't live up to early promise?

[d0zer]

I'm kinds tempted to watch lost. I only watched 3 seasons but I really enjoyed it.

Is it just the ending that disappoints or does the whole thing tail off? And if it's just the ending, is it so bad it spoils everything or just a shitty ending that doesn't live up to early promise?

You saw the best 3 seasons, quit now, don't bother. I wish I could go back in time and tell young d0zer to stop watching both lost and dexter a couple seasons in, or not at all.

[wufwugy]

dont do it young dozer! you have so much life left to live young dozer!

[wufwugy]

I'm kinds tempted to watch lost. I only watched 3 seasons but I really enjoyed it.

Is it just the ending that disappoints or does the whole thing tail off? And if it's just the ending, is it so bad it spoils everything or just a shitty ending that doesn't live up to early promise?

It tails. About the ending: it isn't just that it sucked but for the last few seasons, the back of everybody's mind knew it was going to be lame in exactly the way it was, and the buildup to the ending was largely about shaking the head at how more clear it became they were gonna do it

Also, the ending was guessed by the majority of fans during the first season, but the head writers said it wasn't it. They lied then kept it going for years

Lost is still better than Battlestar Galactica. Fuck that steaming pile of vomit

[Savy]

I'm kinds tempted to watch lost. I only watched 3 seasons but I really enjoyed it.

Is it just the ending that disappoints or does the whole thing tail off? And if it's just the ending, is it so bad it spoils everything or just a shitty ending that doesn't live up to early promise?

Watch 6 feet under, that shit's the nuts.

[d0zer]

I've heard nothing but good things about battlestar galactica, but it's still further back in the queue behind a few other shows that I may never get around to watching including (but not limited to): newsroom, house of cards, boardwalk empire, homeland, and archer.

[d0zer]

Watch 6 feet under, that shit's the nuts.

6' under is infinitely better than Lost.

[rong]

Yeah 6' under is great. But I really want a lost/heroes type show that will entertain me without making me angry.

[wufwugy]

Yeah 6' under is great. But I really want a lost/heroes type show that will entertain me without making me angry.

funny how you denied yourself the greatness of firefly

[wufwugy]

I've heard nothing but good things about battlestar galactica, but it's still further back in the queue behind a few other shows that I may never get around to watching including (but not limited to): newsroom, house of cards, boardwalk empire, homeland, and archer.

people said loads of good things about it because it's a scifi in a world starved of scifi. also its premise is incredible.

however, none of that voids its incompetent writers. if you thought the walking dead writers were bad, you ain't seen nothing yet

i watched every episode but the last 7 or 9 or whatever. because i love scifi so much and i was holding out hope and was hoping for some redemption. but it just gets worse and worse and worse and i couldnt even bring myself to finish the last few eps. they say the finale is contender for woat. which makes sense since the writing staff never hit puberty

[wufwugy]

Dan the kind of entertaining you want may be in Game of Thrones, Rome, or the first 3 seasons of Oz (I don't care what anybody says, the s3 finale was the last episode of Oz. Just like how only 2 Godfathers and 2 Terminators were ever made)

[d0zer]

funny how you denied yourself the greatness of firefly

See I refuse to watch firefly because I don't want to become one of those people complaining about how it was cancelled prematurely. It seems like watching firefly at this point is just intentionally giving yourself tv-blueballs, no matter how good it is...

[wufwugy]

See I refuse to watch firefly because I don't want to become one of those people complaining about how it was cancelled prematurely. It seems like watching firefly at this point is just intentionally giving yourself tv-blueballs, no matter how good it is...

it will certainly make you feel elitist. you know, because you will so clearly see how fox was idiotic for cancelling it

regardless, life is much better with firefly than without. seriously. it's my all time personal favorite. it merges everything that makes stories great, and when watching it you wish you were a member of mal's crew

also, mainly of the best shows have been cancelled. in fact, most of the best shows early in the serial tv world were cancelled because people just didn't know how to watch good tv at the time. carnivale and rome are incredible and should not be forgotten

[wufwugy]

Archer may be a good pick for Dan. It is pretty great but a little less drama-y for my tastes.

Also Sons of Anarchy and Justified hit the entertaining vein more than some like Mad Men. Justified certainly won't make you mad. It's about a dude justified in clowning some fools

[wufwugy]

Justified has a really unique character construct. It isn't just that the hero is kinda villainy and the villain is kinda heroy, but that theyre both heroes even though theyre nemeses

[Galapogos]

I've heard nothing but good things about battlestar galactica, but it's still further back in the queue behind a few other shows that I may never get around to watching including (but not limited to): newsroom, house of cards, boardwalk empire, homeland, and archer.

Archer's hilarious! Don't put it in a queue, it's 20 minutes episodes that have little to do with each other so it's an awesome show to watch when you don't have time for much else; you can leave it and come back to it with ease as well.

[boost]

I've heard nothing but good things about battlestar galactica, but it's still further back in the queue behind a few other shows that I may never get around to watching including (but not limited to): newsroom, house of cards, boardwalk empire, homeland, and archer.

HoC and Boardwalk need to leave this list and appear on the d0zer-has-watched list, posthaste.

[jyms]

I don't think Sons Of Anarchy is getting enough space here. It's a pretty good show. It's not breaking bad but the characters are real enough and the story is pretty good at keeping you engaged to watch the episode or next season. It's on par with BB when it comes to wanting to watch the next episode. I found myself up at 4 am a bunch of times wishing I could watch another episode but had to be up in the am

[rong]

I was like that with 24 too. I think people generally slate 24 but I enjoyed all of them.

[Savy]

I don't think Sons Of Anarchy is getting enough space here. It's a pretty good show. It's not breaking bad but the characters are real enough and the story is pretty good at keeping you engaged to watch the episode or next season. It's on par with BB when it comes to wanting to watch the next episode. I found myself up at 4 am a bunch of times wishing I could watch another episode but had to be up in the am

I recently started the newest season and I really regret it because they build it up really well and the majority of the season finales are awesome and now I have to wait over a month to see how it ends. The only time it was a bit shit was with the whole Ireland thing and even that was ok. Sometimes it's a bit OTT but it's fucking make believe. I just know that can put people off.

Does annoy me how every episode has like a 3 minute song bit at the end where there's no talking. Can't remember if it's always done that but it's done it far too much this series and it's a bit contrived.

[Savy]

Also Modern Family is pretty awesome, isn't what you want at all but it is really really good for what it is.

[rong]

What's the show where an ex con moves to some hick town and impersonates the sheriff? Is it any good? I watched first episode a while back and it looked ok.

[rong]

I love modern family. Phil and cam are two of my favourite characters ever plus the Columbian chick obv.

[Savy]

Banshee.

[bode]

HoC and Boardwalk need to leave this list and appear on the d0zer-has-watched list, posthaste.

was trying to decide between these 2 last night when looking for a new series to start. ended up picking HoC since its shorter, but BWE is next for sure. Also considered SoA.

[Galapogos]

SoA was fun to watch, the whole Ireland field trip season turned me off though and I haven't got around to picking it up again.

[jackvance]

I watched up to 4th season of modern family so it must've done something right but I remember mainly how bad the show was. Not as cringe-worthy as rules of engagement. I just had to stop watching that after they made one of the main characters (the younger guy) pretty much mentally retarded. So many shows that go to bigger extremes to try to be funny but end up not showing real people anymore. The new girl is another show that falls prey to this so badly I can't stand to watch it.

[Renton]

To continue creaming on BWE, im gonna say its the second best HBO show of all time, tied with SFU and behind the Wire. I think they've surpassed the sopranos for sure, although it could never have existed without the foundation that sopranos provided.

[boost]

SFU?

[rong]

Fuck it. I'm getting bwe tonight and I'm gonna give it at least 1 season.

[rong]

6' under

[boost]

I guess I need to watch SFU?

I think I read the premise a long time ago and just didn't care... how many seasons am I looking at?

[d0zer]

HoC and Boardwalk need to leave this list and appear on the d0zer-has-watched list, posthaste.

Pick one!

I watched up to 4th season of modern family so it must've done something right but I remember mainly how bad the show was. Not as cringe-worthy as rules of engagement. I just had to stop watching that after they made one of the main characters (the younger guy) pretty much mentally retarded. So many shows that go to bigger extremes to try to be funny but end up not showing real people anymore. The new girl is another show that falls prey to this so badly I can't stand to watch it.

I used to really like it, and still watch it but I find myself enjoying it a lot less than I used to. Maybe something something about what you said.

I don't think Sons Of Anarchy is getting enough space here. It's a pretty good show. It's not breaking bad but the characters are real enough and the story is pretty good at keeping you engaged to watch the episode or next season. It's on par with BB when it comes to wanting to watch the next episode. I found myself up at 4 am a bunch of times wishing I could watch another episode but had to be up in the am

I like SoA though it's a borderline guilty pleasure. It's better than walking dead tho. I find jax's "too cool for school" attitude a little over the top at times, and unlike sopranos where you saw the realistic consequences of Tony's mental health breaking down under the weight of it all, Jax is going through hell and at most you see him get a little somber, or sigh deeply, or rub his face for a few seconds then BACK AT IT. Overall it's just solid overgrown boy entertainment tho.

[boost]

d0zer, both are very high quality. HoC has only aired one season, so it's easy to burn through, and not feel overwhelmed. Boardwalk is the better show imo. It's just so expansive, and does an amazing job with the economy of screentime-- on the level of Game of Thrones. Every scene has value, and the world is incredibly fleshed out. But nothing should be taken from House of Cards. It's a very compelling political thriller, with top tier performances and production.

So, yeah, I won't pick one for you, but hopefully that helps you pick.

[Renton]

I guess I need to watch SFU?

I think I read the premise a long time ago and just didn't care... how many seasons am I looking at?

It's purely a character drama, five 12 hour seasons. I don't think there's ever been a show that develops its characters as well as SFU. The cast is pretty small and there isn't much balls to the wall action, but it's still really great. And probably the best pilot and series finales of all time.

[bikes]

I am rewatching Rome for the nth time. This is truly a delightful show.

[wufwugy]

SoA is over the top without being ridiculous. It has been too long since I watched SFU, so I can't say much about it, but I remember loving it. It's a pure drama though, so lots of people don't like it. BWE gets hate for the same reason. People just have a hard time sticking to something of high quality even if it doesn't jump out at them. Just keep in mind that all the slowness of BWE is a part of the exposition and rising action for the mega climaxes, and each season does it better than the previous

[drmcboy]

SoA - We are still watching, but always 2-8 eps behind.

season 1 - one of the better shows on TV
season 2 - marred by gang rape scene you'll be forced to relive over and over again. I think it was OK, but it was impossible for me to get excited to watch.
season 3 - lol ireland wtf. felt like a spinoff.

since then - it's OK, occasionally awesome, mostly frustrating. In many ways it has the same problem as TWD - they can't decide whether they want to be make a fun sopranos knock off with motorcycles, or if they want this all to MEAN SOMETHING. The main character, as we're endlessly told via meh voiceovers, only wants to do right by his family. Then he'll make decision after decision that in no way help his family and invalidate everything we think we know about him. Or he'll change 'family' to mean the club, 1 guy in the club, not include his mom, etc, then back again. If that is their 'point', they should have gone with motorpranos and been done with it. MAKE A PLAN GOD LAUGHS, message endlessly received, let's move on.

To compare to the infinitely better BWE, nucky has done many terrible things, but I like him and want things to work out well. I am not rooting for any major SoA character to do anything except get got. I guess a show can still function in that mode, but it puts a ceiling on the success it can have. You don't have to work very hard to justify any plot development when you've already demonstrated everyone has no logical motive/plan/understanding of/for their actions.

To compare to the also awesome SFU, I ended up mostly hating the whole family by the end IIRC, but their characters and the issues they ran into were so well drawn and thought out that it felt real - it was hard to watch, but more because you could see yourself reacting in the same negative ways they did. With SoA it seems like every time they need to chose between a cool new plot line or maintaining consistency in the characters, they snap chose plot. The problem is we've seen every organized crime plot that could ever be made already (and thanks to HBO with better acting/dialogue) - the whole point should be how the expected events (OC is hard) move the characters.

It also compares badly to FX's better shows - Justified (almost has no plot, it isn't even clear what marshalls do) and The Americans (spies doing spy stuff in the 80s). The characters on these are interesting enough it hardly matters what happens, as long as it happens to them.

[wufwugy]

The montages fucking suck