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Hotel_Detect
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11-03-2004, 05:05 AM
Post subject: BUSH WINNSSSSS!!!!
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 62
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269 electoral votes according to msnbc, fox, and soon cnn..
this means Kerry could get at most 269 which results in a tie decided by house of representatives = bush wins..
more than likely Bush will win Nevada or NM and win outright
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
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Yes, yes he did. What a glorious day in politics!
I wonder why my college dorm hall got so quiet when Bush won and why no one cheered when I screamed it down the hall at 1 am.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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4 MORE YEARS!!!!
Seriously, it's kinda sad. With a vulnerable president the best the Democrats could come up with is Kerry?!?!? They need to do some serious soul searching these next 2-4 years and figure out how to put up more moderate canidates. Like the Republicans did in 98-00...
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Hotel_Detect
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 62
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CNN still refuses to call it, but when James Carville concedes defeat you know the dems are beat!
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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CNN just wants to keep the dream alive. It's good television when Kerry still might win with a miricle 4th quarter Hail Mary.
Just bat that shit down!
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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Humphrind
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 1,887
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Seriously, it's kinda sad. With a vulnerable president the best the Democrats could come up with is Kerry?!?!?
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You hit the nail on the head.
How can people vote for Bush? Because the best the Dems can offer is Kerry. Someone like Dean would have given this election the campaign it needed and likely won.
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I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Humphrind
How can people vote for Bush? Because the best the Dems can offer is Kerry. Someone like Dean would have given this election the campaign it needed and likely won.
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Edwards was their best hope. New England liberals don't have nation wide appeal. I thought they learned that lesson with Dukakis...
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lonnie
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 923
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With a vulnerable president the best the Democrats could come up with is Kerry?
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They gave it a good shot.
Bush:  
Kerry:  
Flop:   
Democrats go all-in on Kerry's draw. He's got a chance, cmon.
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scgolfer
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 629
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YIPEE!! YIPEE!! YIPEE!!
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Holy crap I cant play against Yoda!!
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!Luck
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Under a bridge
Posts: 1,367
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Time to sell Stem Cell research stock. Then again maybe the market already accounted for it.
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Hotel_Detect
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 62
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lhoney2
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With a vulnerable president the best the Democrats could come up with is Kerry?
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They gave it a good shot.
Bush:
Kerry:
Flop:
Democrats go all-in on Kerry's draw. He's got a chance, cmon. |
Honey, .. he has no chance at this point when you listen to anyone other than democratic spinsters.. the vote deficeit is too much... for god sake's bush has a 3% national lead in popular vote!
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lhoney2
Democrats go all-in on Kerry's draw. He's got a chance, cmon.
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It was Bush's doing that Kerry even had a chance. With a better canidate this night could have been very different. Will be interesting to see how the Clinton wing of the party responds. This very well could set-up a power-grab...
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Aceofone
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 497
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I feel fairly disapointed that bush won, but on the bright side....
In 4 years a f++king imbred monkey will beat Cheney, more than likely Obama or Clinton though.
*Sighs* time for a scotch. 
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BoondockSaint
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,844
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Amen - I'm glad he won!!!!!!!
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stevedonel
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Vegas
Posts: 617
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I'm an Independent and I wouldnt call myself a Bush supporter; I voted for him because he was the best option available. But what are you Dems worried about? This sets up the Hillary '08 campaign. After 8 years with "W" in office, I think some of the fence-sitters will swing over to the liberal side of things, just for a change of pace (fickled morons). The Republican party really needs to find a high quality candidate, and get him in the spotlight for the next 4 years, so he can develop a track record in the public eye. The Dole '96 campaign was the only mistake bigger than a Cheney '08 campaign would be.
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Is that guy still part of the forum??
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zenbitz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,911
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Hey, Hillary was the last person I voted for that actually WON! (When I lived in NY). I think that streak is broken however, since I just toed the party line in congress this time around, and I'm sure those demo party hacks got re-upped.
Best think I can say about Bush is that it's fitting that he clean up his own mess. I think what saved him was the uptick in the economy last few months. He was going to get all the terrophobes no matter what.
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zenbitz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,911
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I'm not sure I agree that the dems would have had a better chance with another candidate. Kerry was a war hero for christ's sake.
Sure, he was "liberal" - but which is worse for the Democrats, a close loss, or a beatdown becasuse Nader got 10% of the vote again.
The part that's tough (for democrats) to swallow is that they were WAY MORE organized than ever before... and they still lost. In the 80's it was always said that if the Dems ever got ORGANIZED like the repubs, then they would be in power for 100 years (based on the fact that there are many, many more REGISTERED dems than repubs).
It's too bad we couldn't have let the south seceed AND free the slaves... maybe if we ask nicely they'll leave?
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lonnie
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 923
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It's too bad we couldn't have let the south seceed AND free the slaves... maybe if we ask nicely they'll leave?
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We just elected our first black mayor in Baton Rouge yesterday. What we need to do is move CA to the east coast then put up a big wall separating the east coast from the rest of the country. East and West United States, similar to post-war Germany.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lhoney2
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It's too bad we couldn't have let the south seceed AND free the slaves... maybe if we ask nicely they'll leave?
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We just elected our first black mayor in Baton Rouge yesterday. What we need to do is move CA to the east coast then put up a big wall separating the east coast from the rest of the country. East and West United States, similar to post-war Germany. |
Deal! But we get Alaska! ... Pittsburgh stays on the west side.
Weest siiiideee! *W finger pose*
8-)
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by zenbitz
I'm not sure I agree that the dems would have had a better chance with another candidate. Kerry was a war hero for christ's sake.
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Ummmm.... most "War hero"s don't testify to congress with embellished stories of misdeeds by fellow soldiers. He ain't no John McCain.
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Originally Posted by zenbitz
Sure, he was "liberal"
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I prefer the term socialist.
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Originally Posted by zenbitz
- but which is worse for the Democrats, a close loss, or a beatdown becasuse Nader got 10% of the vote again.
The part that's tough (for democrats) to swallow is that they were WAY MORE organized than ever before... and they still lost. In the 80's it was always said that if the Dems ever got ORGANIZED like the repubs, then they would be in power for 100 years (based on the fact that there are many, many more REGISTERED dems than repubs).
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I guess it doesn't matter how good the ship is if you don't have a strong skipper...
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Originally Posted by zenbitz
It's too bad we couldn't have let the south seceed AND free the slaves... maybe if we ask nicely they'll leave?
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LOL!
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Ah yes, I thoroughly enjoyed this election.
I stayed up all night in Britain to watch the live coverage of it. Our election program began at midnight and was supposed to end at 5am, but it ended at 7am due to the Ohio delays.
I've always been into American politics and I think this was the best presidential race I've seen.
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DrNoChance
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Flush
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 411
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....and north of the border, in Canada, we're in shock. Why did you guys vote that talking monkey into power for another 4 years?!? Unreal...
In all fairness though, Canadian politics are far more left-of-center than the US. It's only natural that most Canadians favor the Dems, but we really dislike Bush and there are plenty of Republican presidents that we thought were just fine.
I agree with whoever said that Edwards would have been a better candidate than Kerry. More charismatic by far, IMO.
That being said, I really felt that the Dems just might take it this time....(sigh)...4 more years of Bush....it will be entertaining at least 
Besides, another Bush term might mean another entertaining Michael Moore movie 
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zenbitz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,911
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Quote:
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Ummmm.... most "War hero"s don't testify to congress with embellished stories of misdeeds by fellow soldiers. He ain't no John McCain.
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What I love about the USA is that the two of us can see totally different sides of the same coin.
Realistically - I have NO idea what Kerry did in 'nam. Right now, all the stories are so much spin. I am reasonably sure he was there, unlike the president. I actually respect the president for dodging the draft - who the hell was nutty enough to go to vietnam if it was avoidable.... He should be proud of it, not pretend that he served "honorable" on an AFB stateside.
Anyhooo... I digressed. My main point was - JK at least had a viable REP as a war hero, which is all that matters to the public eye. That rep took some hits (of questionable legitimacy, IMHO - but it's just that opinion), and it's even possible that the swift boat vets for truth saved this election for W.
Kerry's no socialist - I should know. He's a billionare!
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Hotel_Detect
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 62
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I don't think anyone has mentioned this so far.. but anyone else notice that the Democrats are COMPLETELY ****ed?...
They lost a massive number of seats in the Senate, could not unseat a president with a lot of vulnerabilities, and increased their deficeit in the house...
I don't think we have to worry about becoming a socialist nation any time soon!
And that is why Bush got my vote.. I am not a socialist, the democrats want to take over 50% of my income, .. that = socialism (to me at least) and in America it is unacceptable.
On a side note, I feel that this was a VERY good Presidential election. I noticed one of the UK posters agreed. It it clear that everyone got the chance to vote, as it should be, and they voted Bush in by a wide national margin. I applaud Mr. Kerry for not dragging this out and realizing when he is beat. This is a good day for American democracy no matter what side of the fence you fall, everyone got to vote, and there are very very few claims of problems. Thank god we got it right this time, if we had another Florida, the world and many of our own citizens would be very skeptical with the results.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hotel_Detect
I don't think anyone has mentioned this so far.. but anyone else notice that the Democrats are COMPLETELY ****ed?...
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Yup. At the national level, they can't seem to turn down the volume on the anti-corporate wing nor the socialists. Hence, they have trouble reaching out to the moderates...
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lonnie
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 923
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I am not a socialist, the democrats want to take over 50% of my income
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To me, this is what lost the election for Kerry. He said he was going to "rollback" the tax cut for "rich Americans". Anytime a candidate comes out and says "tax increase" they are asking for trouble.
On the flip side, Bush's unrealistic plan of letting some individuals divert a portion of their Social Security proceeds to a private investment probably cost him quite a few votes as well. A smart poitician doesn't even talk about messing with Granny's social security check. The blue hairs will show up to vote.
These were both major errors, but threatening a tax increase is the worse of the two evils.
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johnnyawe
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,064
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Republicans always ridicule democrats for nominating liberal candidates and Democrats always ridicule Republicans for nominating conservative candidates. For example, many Dems ridiculed the Repubs in '00 when Bush beat out McCain.
These accusations that the Dems would have won if they had could have found someone better than Kerry are, in my opinion, baseless. Believe me, no matter who they put up, he would have been viewed as an out of touch looney liberal by Bush voters.
As far as Kerry being a socialist and unable to reach out to moderates, he was to the right of Dean and Kucinich and to the left of Gephardt and Edwards. That is what I would call a "moderate democrat". If anyone here wants to see a real-life liberal democrat (not just a democrat that Bush and company call liberal, but a real liberal), come out here to San Francisco and I'll introduce you to some.
So then why did nobody vote for him? Hmm..
Is the country really making a values shift to the right or was this election just the result of Bush's 9/11 popularity and/or the idea that he will somehow handle Iraq and terrorism better? I just don't know and I don't think anyone does right now.
If the country is indeed shifting to the right, then expect the Democrats to be dragged along. The two parties are constantly shifting in the wind in order to better align themselves with the values and beliefs of the voters. But right now I think the talk of Democrats needing a major overhaul could be premature. This is only the first time their presidential candidate has lost the popular vote since 1988. If the next 2 or 3 elections go the same way, then some major changes will of course need to be made.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Originally Posted by TheNatural
These accusations that the Dems would have won if they had could have found someone better than Kerry are, in my opinion, baseless. Believe me, no matter who they put up, he would have been viewed as an out of touch looney liberal by Bush voters.
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Gephardt, Edwards and Liberman were all much easier pills to swallow than Kerry. You need only look at Kery's approval ratings. That being said I was impressed with Kerry's showing in the debates. But he can't escape the simple fact he has a long and well documented history of saying one thing and then voting the other way on non-trivial issues. You just never know where you're at with him and I think that spooked away a lot of "swing" voters. People have an image of the President being a charismatic leader and de-facto dictator in times of crisis. The guy who can make a stand and put the breaks on congress. How can you give a guy like Kerry that kind of role?
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johnnyawe
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,064
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Originally Posted by Fnord
But he can't escape the simple fact he has a long and well documented history of saying one thing and then voting the other way on non-trivial issues.
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I've researched this accusation and I disagree with it. I have some stuff on my site about it. It isn't worth debating at this point with the election over, but I just could not let that stand without saying that I disagree with it.
I think a Lieberman candidacy would have resulted in a landslide victory for Bush. The only people I've ever heard say that the Dems should have nominated Lieberman are far right-wing conservatives who would never vote for a Democrat.
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zenbitz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,911
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Kerry's flip-flopping - I'm don't even care if it's true or not. Intelligent people can change their minds.
Only in politics is pure bull-headedness considered an asset.
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Hotel_Detect
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 62
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But right now I think the talk of Democrats needing a major overhaul could be premature. This is only the first time their presidential candidate has lost the popular vote since 1988. If the next 2 or 3 elections go the same way, then some major changes will of course need to be made.
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This is an interesting point and you seem like a thoughtful democrat.. But that being said, i disagree. I am a very moderate republican (i do not agree with bush on a very wide range of issues) yet the democrats are unable to appeal to me.
They have not trully controlled the congress for the last 10 years and now they have decisively lost a presidential campaign. Previous to this they had only one viable presidential candidate since 1980. The previous 40 or 50 years they dominated politics, this seems to me to be a very ill democratic party. Considering the amount of effort and money (as much or more than republicans) put into this campaign, and considering the sentate now sits at 55 rep 44 dem. 1 ind. It seems clear the dems are in major major trouble as a party.
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elanto
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,117
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im pretty angry about this election, i dislike bush so much, i wanted kerry to win, then again kerry wasnt that good of a candidate but i would have chosen anyone over bush, i would have even voted for the squirrel in boondocksaints avatar than bush, at least the squirrel has bigger balls.
Bush is a coward he didnt even go to vietnam for crying out loud!
-anto
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by elanto
Bush is a coward he didnt even go to vietnam for crying out loud!
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Don't use Vietnam as a proving ground for manhood.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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DaNutsInYoEye
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,921
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Which war did you fight in elanto?
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TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?
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johnnyawe
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,064
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hotel_Detect
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But right now I think the talk of Democrats needing a major overhaul could be premature. This is only the first time their presidential candidate has lost the popular vote since 1988. If the next 2 or 3 elections go the same way, then some major changes will of course need to be made.
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This is an interesting point and you seem like a thoughtful democrat.. But that being said, i disagree. I am a very moderate republican (i do not agree with bush on a very wide range of issues) yet the democrats are unable to appeal to me. |
So you're a moderate republican.. What would the Dems have to do to appeal to you?
(I'm technically registered as non-partisan).
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gutshot
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: lemonade was a popular drink and it still is
Posts: 608
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I'm in the same boat.
They have to realize that they can't get up at a podium and promise the world and have no specific plan to deliver. Kerry's platform sounded like the goods, but there was very little substance behind it. I searched all over his website for hard facts and never found much but broad generalizations. Didn't merit a change.
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-jay
"i think the biggest leak in my game is using 2nd level thinking against players who can't think on the first level." -Renton
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Hotel_Detect
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 62
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TheNatural
So you're a moderate republican.. What would the Dems have to do to appeal to you?
(I'm technically registered as non-partisan).
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Very good question... I am not sure that the current party could appeal to me in anywhere near their current structure. I am conservative financially. I am very against big government and heavy taxation (like the president says, no one should have to pay over 35% in taxes). But, socially (not social programs, but rather values) i consider myself quite liberal. I have no problem with gay marriage, abortion (not late term), and I am for stem cell research, etc, etc. In this respect I seem to be in the same mold as Mayor Guiliani or Arnold Schwartzenegger, both of whom are moderate republicans.
In order to pull in my type, the dems would need a sweeping change. They have two choices imo .. go left or go center. I personally think they had more success with the middle ground (ala Clinton). But I am not sure we will have a situation like the 90s ever again.
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Hotel_Detect
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 62
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Originally Posted by Aceofone
I feel fairly disapointed that bush won, but on the bright side....
In 4 years a f++king imbred monkey will beat Cheney, more than likely Obama or Clinton though.
*Sighs* time for a scotch. |
I don't think you follow American politics very closely, since Cheney has said 85 billion times that he has no further political ambition. The republican candidates will be quite powerful once again, ... Guiliani, McCain, Arnold (?.. not legal yet).. but it will be another fierce battle.. probably favoring the republicans
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hotel_Detect
Quote:
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Originally Posted by TheNatural
So you're a moderate republican.. What would the Dems have to do to appeal to you?
(I'm technically registered as non-partisan).
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Very good question... I am not sure that the current party could appeal to me in anywhere near their current structure. I am conservative financially. I am very against big government and heavy taxation (like the president says, no one should have to pay over 35% in taxes). But, socially (not social programs, but rather values) i consider myself quite liberal. I have no problem with gay marriage, abortion (not late term), and I am for stem cell research, etc, etc. In this respect I seem to be in the same mold as Mayor Guiliani or Arnold Schwartzenegger, both of whom are moderate republicans.
In order to pull in my type, the dems would need a sweeping change. They have two choices imo .. go left or go center. I personally think they had more success with the middle ground (ala Clinton). But I am not sure we will have a situation like the 90s ever again. |
You're a libertarian. Conservative economically and liberal socially. Welcome to the clan.
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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Hotel_Detect
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 62
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You're a libertarian. Conservative economically and liberal socially. Welcome to the clan.
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Yes I realize this  ...
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elanto
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,117
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Originally Posted by DaNutsInYoEye
Which war did you fight in elanto?
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Im not running for president am i. and i dont care if bush went to vietnam, the problem is that he skipped his draft on purpose, which would make him a coward and on top of that he then says that Kerry is someway a traitor, like.. come on man, that was pure B&%&%&. Now who do you think is better prepared to lead you to war, a man that served 2 or 3 terms in vietnam or a guy who has been running away from war all of his cowardly life
-anto
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Corey
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 1,349
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I dont mean to cut anyone down but I will state this:
Bush won fair and square didnt cheat to win; had more votes than Kerry; Kerry admits defeat. France is a bunch of pussies; and in my opinion if your not from America I could care less of what you think about American Politics.
Democrats you can bitch moan all you want, you can write to this forum and bitch complain why Bush sucks why he is going to shove up your ass for another 4 years. Last time I check America is a democracy of where the American people pick the President. So get mad at your fellow Americans not the candidates. Whether you like it or not President Bush is President of the United States of America for 4 more years and there is nothing you can do about it. Reading and hearing about bullshit statements of how democrats were robbed of another Presidency is bullshit and its horrible. So do us all a favor stfu and admit the defeat and quit your bitching.
PS. If you are wondering who I voted for: I didnt, the statement of what Fnord said earlier about picking a better candidate to run hit the spot.
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Corey
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scgolfer
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 629
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I love how liberals totally forget thier all time hero Clinton was the biggest draft dodger of them all, and they didnt have any trouble voting for him over the youngest navy pilot at the time George H Bush. Also since when was the lefrt in favor of the Veitnam, at the time they were totally against it? BUt when it suits there cause it was the OK. The only thing I respected about Kerry was that he didnt cave into the pressure to say what he did after the war was wrong, it hurt him badly, but at least he didnt flip flop on that.
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Holy crap I cant play against Yoda!!
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scgolfer
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 629
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And elanto your showing you dont know much about the politics anyways Kerry served 4 month not 2 or 3 "terms" 
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Holy crap I cant play against Yoda!!
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Aceofone
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 497
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hotel_Detect
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Originally Posted by Aceofone
I feel fairly disapointed that bush won, but on the bright side....
In 4 years a f++king imbred monkey will beat Cheney, more than likely Obama or Clinton though.
*Sighs* time for a scotch. |
I don't think you follow American politics very closely, since Cheney has said 85 billion times that he has no further political ambition. The republican candidates will be quite powerful once again, ... Guiliani, McCain, Arnold (?.. not legal yet).. but it will be another fierce battle.. probably favoring the republicans |
I do tend to follow politics and current events very closely in most parts of the world; however, Cheney does not get a lot of air time or print outside of the US's borders. So I suppose I'll retract that statement and rephrase it: "I hope Cheney decides to run because I feel he would be quite easy to beat."
An Aside:
I've been thinking lately that I'm not really a conservative, and I'm not really a liberal. I believe in civil liberties, stem cell research etc. but I also believe in fiscal discipline and small government. I think thats why I liked Clinton so much, and part of me is hoping that your constitution is ammended because I would like to see Swartzenegger (<<Spelling?) run for president.
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elanto
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,117
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by scgolfer
And elanto your showing you dont know much about the politics anyways Kerry served 4 month not 2 or 3 "terms" |
my bad... i meant so,ething else, which there no point fighting about it here
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Hotel_Detect
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 62
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Im not running for president am i. and i dont care if bush went to vietnam, the problem is that he skipped his draft on purpose, which would make him a coward and on top of that he then says that Kerry is someway a traitor
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Bush never ever said this. He said "Kerry served honorably".. he also called for taking down all 527 ads, with specific mention the swift boat ads that you refer to.
So once again you are unfairly spinning, trying to insinuate that bush called Kerry a traitor. Maybe you should pay more attention to detail.
I also echo that Clinton TRULLY dodged the draft, but he was worthy of two terms right? At least Bush served in the guard.
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Radashack
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 522
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My God the love in this thread is amazing
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Radashack
My God the love in this thread is amazing |
I hate you and every bone in your body! Infact, I'm going to hunt you down and stick extra bones in your body just so I can hate you even more! 
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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johnnyawe
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,064
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hotel_Detect
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Originally Posted by TheNatural
So you're a moderate republican.. What would the Dems have to do to appeal to you?
(I'm technically registered as non-partisan).
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Very good question... I am not sure that the current party could appeal to me in anywhere near their current structure. I am conservative financially. I am very against big government and heavy taxation (like the president says, no one should have to pay over 35% in taxes). But, socially (not social programs, but rather values) i consider myself quite liberal. I have no problem with gay marriage, abortion (not late term), and I am for stem cell research, etc, etc. In this respect I seem to be in the same mold as Mayor Guiliani or Arnold Schwartzenegger, both of whom are moderate republicans. |
Fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Me too. That is why I vote Democrat. Everybody is fiscally conservative. I have never met a single person, liberal or conservative, that doesn't want to lower taxes and bring down the deficit. The only difference in the candidates tax proposals this year was that Kerry would have raised taxes on folks making over $200,000 in order to reduce the deficit, which I consider to be fiscally conservative. And this how it was in 2000 as well.. and with Clinton. I just don't get how people say that Democrats want to raise taxes and spend the country into oblivion. If you look at the proposals of Democratic presidential candiates over the past 12 years, it doesn't hold true, except for taxes raised on the +$200,000 folks.
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