poker going well, break even with bonuses so far over 20k hands which is definate improvement! Not only do I still have same bankroll I had a month ago but it's practically (give or take 3bi's) the same as it was before I started.
I've spent last couple of days studying, because I hadn't mastered the style I was given to crush 2nl, and am going to be starting back within next day or two.
Had interesting conversation with a poker player today who plays small stakes, he said key is adjustments and instinctive play. At any stake. I'm looking forward when I start to play winning poker 'instinctively'.
I've been changing my sleeping patterns lately, it started accidentally and now it's purposeful - I need to be up at 6.10am to give me 20 minutes to wake up and half hour to get ready before I leave to go to work. The other day I set alarm for 5 which meant I had an hour to stay in bed semi awake. I reccomend it! doesn't feel like half a chore getting up when you've been lying about for an hour
Have started listening more and more to Eckharte Tolle lately, he's a great spiritual teacher, if anyone hasn't read "The Power of Now" I really reccomend it.
It's funny how you can listen to something / read something and only understand what you're ready to understand. I'd always recognised the whole concept of your life is what you make of it etc because of the concepts and values you hold etc - but it was only re listening to this that I realised the connection between this and quantum physics. Tolle mentions the whole physical effect of observer/observed, that you can't observe something without effecting it. I remember this now as the Heisenberg (sp?) Uncertainty Principle - and it's interesting that i'm seeing the link between the physical phenomena now and life in general.
The link that he makes is to use the same principle in light of how we view our world. Our level of consciousness / unconsciousness has a direct effect on the world we see when we exist in the world.
Going to try to be present today at work and throughout today as much as possible, and away from cycles of conditioned thinking. I'll let you know how it goes when I next post!
Hope you're all having a good week, bank holiday here next week (national holiday) - so that's something to look forward to!
Last edited by LuckySlevin; 05-26-2011 at 01:41 AM.
I've spent last couple of days studying, because I hadn't mastered the style I was given to crush 2nl, and am going to be starting back within next day or two.
....................................
It's funny how you can listen to something / read something and only understand what you're ready to understand.
the second line also explains/applies to the first line.Considering that Gary blew 25$ right at the start in a nights tilted madness and he's spewed lots of money trying to bluff 2nl'ers he could easily have moved up by now. Its encouraging that we seem to be on top of the tilted spewing which has regularly been the cause of past OP's failing and hopefully Gary realises that only because he was rolled for the level he's playing that he had the ability to come back from that initial craziness. In the past that would have been a busto post.Even moreso because he's not mentioned here but he got rivered quad over quads with staks in and it didn't seem to affect his play for the rest of that session.Before I think that would have resulted in a big tilt spew session.
Now he just has to implement the style that hes been told to play , rather than his interpretation of it. Once that happens I'm expecting an upwards graph.
It sounds as if you've made some significant progress.
It's great to read that your roll is still intact after a month. I'm looking forward to watching you climb the stakes.
I'm also glad to hear that the tilting has gotten under some form of control, but I am a bit concerned about this statement:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
Had interesting conversation with a poker player today who plays small stakes, he said key is adjustments and instinctive play. At any stake. I'm looking forward when I start to play winning poker 'instinctively'.
The key to this statement is "play winning poker." Which is exploiting your opponents tendancies (playing instinctively) while still keeping a solid foundation in winning theory.
From what I've read of this and the last few ops it seems that, in addition to poor bankroll management, one of the common denominators leading to the inevitable failure was a desire to 'play instinctively' without a solid foundation or emotional control. I hope that this comment isn't a sign of an impending return to your previous state of mind which, imo, lead to the spew sessions . Instead, that you are actually beginning to get your emotions and thought processes under some sort control and will maintain that long enough to build an EXTREMELY strong foundation which will hopefully take you to the nosebleeds, if that's where you wish to go.
GL to all.
Oh, yeah: quads over quads...man that is sick
keep up the good work
ok so i've come to say hello to all my poker friends, hello poker friends. It's friday night and im studying. been going over my strategy lately feeling good about it but it's hard work. To really absorb information I have to go over it many times, and it's not easy when you want to be playing, but ... you get what you put into this game of ours.
A relative passed away this weekend, I hadn't seen him for a long time, but I have memories from when I was younger, and it's sad in the house this weekend. It's times like these that make you realise how much you need to go for what you want out of life. And just get real. Because whereever we go afterwards (who knows?) - one thing is for sure, our time here is short and we need to make the most of it.
It also makes you appreciate small things in life like air, and time. I'm not drinking anymore. It won't be the first time I've decided to go t-total, but I just feel like I'm probabally going to stick to it this time, well at least for a few years anyway.
I have a long weekend now not back to work until Wednesday so it's lots of study and then i'm hitting the tables. I feel about as confident as I've felt before with my game, guess time will tell if it's well placed confidence!
have a good weekend everyone and run good
Last edited by LuckySlevin; 05-27-2011 at 06:47 PM.
Poker going well, almost there with the basic strategy to beat 2nl now, the fact it's taken me a month to get there goes to show how bad my original game was! Mostly based around never giving anyone any credit, and being a liberal get my stack in merchant~!
Just finished a 2 hour sweat with keith. One of the things we covered was sizing to get stacks in. Shortly after this hand came up, one which i'm pretty pleased with in terms of bet sizing so I thought I'd put it here for prosperity
+2bi's today so a good day, really getting my head around some of the post flop situations I used to struggle with lately which is great
I have tomorrow booked off work, been in all weekend playing so think i'll take a break tomorrow, I'm thinking of going into Birmingham it's only about 1.5 hours from London. Checking out the city for the day.
Yeah think that's the plan now. Just need to find my music player now and get it on charge!
I've had a pretty unhealthy relationship with alochol for a while 'bout time I grew up and out of it if you ask me. Went to the poker room this evening final tabled a 20 rebuy but got bubbled. Think i'm going to stick to my online poker for now at least for the next few months. I definately could do with finding some healthy hobbies, I think I might try to get into reading again. I went into bookshop on way home today but couldn't find anything that appealed. I might download napoleon hill think and grow rich, see if I can pick up some financial wisdom that'll put me on the road to riches because i am very poor with my financial management off of the tables.
If you're getting arrested for being drunk, I think you have more serious problems to sort out than your poker game. I mean we all want to see you improve and all, but sometimes the very foundations of your lifestyle have to be solid before you can hope to be successful in anything.
yes this is true, I used to drink far too much, lately i tamed it right back but still have the occasional blip, I could do with just going completely t-total really.
Poker's going well at 2nl, since I went back to drawing board and reapplied myself, only play 4/5 of last ten days but going pretty well: -
struggling a tad with motivation today, played about 8 hours but have been up and down a little. Br currently at $79, and about an hour or two from releasing next $10 bonus.
mini challenge:
- play for 6 hours, play well, report progress at end of 6 hours.
- Include: P/L, total hands, ALL in EV, and session graph!
thanks bj yeah tbh my assumption is that play is so bad here they are stacking off with an 8 but not sure, i def need to refine that thinking as I start to move up i think.
here is a hand im pretty pleased with
what a difference a day makes, wake up in the morning play for 2 hours and grab a buy in.
This staking deal i'm in is the best thing that's happened to my game, for the first time in my poker playing I have real confidence I can beat a stake, even if it is 2nl, in the past no matter what short term success I have had I always was a bit fearful of it all going pear shaped after a couple of losing sessions.
I don't get that anymore I'm consistently outplaying my opponents at 2nl and it feels great!
UTG bets $0.15, Hero raises to $0.40, UTG calls $0.25
TURN ($1.10) 2 6 6 Q
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.50, UTG calls $0.50
RIVER ($2.10) 2 6 6 Q A
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.93, UTG calls $0.93 (AI)
Hero shows 6 6
(Pre 20%, Flop 99.9%, Turn 100.0%)
UTG shows K K
(Pre 80%, Flop 0.1%, Turn 0.0%)
Hero wins $3.70
I was saying to Keith yesterday how daunting it is to think how much I've still got to learn before I'll even be beating 10nl most likely consisently etc. But it's so nice to feel i'm finally holding my own at a limit. Keith said concentrate on beating the opponents in front of you and the rest will come, which sounds like great advice!
I don't know how you guys do it that consistently beat the micros and small stakes, but one step at a time I guess!
Last edited by LuckySlevin; 06-05-2011 at 08:01 AM.
since I took a 4 day break to relearn what I was told to learn and applied myself it's been going well. Just endured a 2k break even stretch (give or take 50bb's) which I know most of your stakes probabally isn't that much but at 2nl it's kinda painful.
Anyway here is last ten days play since restarting, I think we're finally there. Even more so now I know I can keep playing well (even if only probabally at 80% of my game due to getting a bit frustrated) and still win over 2k hands of running mostly below ev
I just showed a family member and they said I'd probabally find more than $2 a day if I went out looking in the streets, lol. Also said they're happy to double my earnings and pay me $4 a day to work for them. Also if they'd just played 2,000 hands and earnt $1 they'd throw the computer out the window. LOL. These comments did make me laugh. Just got to keep ploughing on haven't you when you're starting out.
I said the difference is in a year or two's time, if I went out looking for spare change every day I wouldn't be living a lifestyle of freedom and wealth off my poker growth which I should be in a year or two of this.
I think this is why there will always be fish. When you're starting out, it is counter intuitive to be content with such small sums but this has been the whole issue with every losing player that was still losing after 3 years of reading forums I'm sure. They see people making lots of money and enjoying the freedom that brings, and don't appreciate the work that went in to get to that point.
Roll on 2012!
Last edited by LuckySlevin; 06-05-2011 at 04:37 PM.
First milestone reached! Past the $120 mark with the bankroll now ($128.53).
About to move up to 4nl. I've learnt alot technically but there's still been the odd spew which I'm keen to cut out. But the main thing is I've worked hard, grinded at 2nl consistently and as a result am now ready to move up.
My goals going forward for 4nl are to
[ ] Work on understanding best lines post flop, I have alot of work to do here.
[ ] Make sure I stay to full ring and leave tables when they break.
[ ] Make sure I don't 'over adjust' to loose players and stack off too lightly.
Really looking forward to next chapter in my poker now, never had a bankroll before and built it at one stake following a plan and then moved up to another, it feels pretty cool. I also had a chat with Keith recently and he pointed out now that I'll likely never need to deposit again because no matter what happens I'll always be able to rebuild my roll from the stake below the stake I lose if I stick to brm, and I can now beat 2nl which is the lowest stake. So I'm feeling very good about it!
2nl - 4nl took me 38,000 hands.
Last edited by LuckySlevin; 06-08-2011 at 07:17 PM.
First milestone reached! Past the $120 mark with the bankroll now ($128.53).
About to move up to 4nl. I've learnt alot technically but there's still been the odd spew which I'm keen to cut out. But the main thing is I've worked hard, grinded at 2nl consistently and as a result am now ready to move up.
My goals going forward for 4nl are to
[ ] Work on understanding best lines post flop, I have alot of work to do here.
[ ] Make sure I stay to full ring and leave tables when they drop below 7 players actually sat in playing.
[ ] Make sure I don't 'adjust' to loose players at all, or stack off lightly.
Really looking forward to next chapter in my poker now, never had a bankroll before and built it at one stake following a plan and then moved up to another, it feels pretty cool. I also had a chat with Keith recently and he pointed out now that I'll likely never need to deposit again because no matter what happens I'll always be able to rebuild my roll from the stake below the stake I lose if I stick to brm, and I can now beat 2nl which is the lowest stake. So I'm feeling very good about it!
2nl - 4nl took me 38,000 hands.
2nl - WTF??? took 3000 hands
WT??? -partially implementing what you were told to do and run at breakeven - 17000 hands
implementing what you were told to do and moving up - 18000 hands
or some more insights from your bankroll reporting
june 4th - BR $79
june 8th - BR $128 (including a 12$ spew session in between)
you've moaned all through about how long it was taking to move up, but look how quickly it could have been achieved if you had just studied what we told you at the start and implemented it. When you did you zoomed through the stake.
from your coaching thread today
I think of the first day I lost 10 bi's playing badly at 2nl, and more recently when I played shorthanded and lost 8 or so only to recover them the same day. I know that will not be happening again. I can't explain it but I feel closer to my goal of being a winner poker player earning decent money playing and everything seems to have more substance to it for me now with my poker, I know I've moved up once I can do it again, and all that will stop me is poor play.
I've told you before to stop thinking like this as its putting pressure on yourself. Learn ,improve and play and if you do enough learning and improving you will find out what level you can achieve. It may be higher it may just be recreational but by keeping these thoughts and saying them is detracting from your current game. Its fine to have ambition, but focus on today , rather than trying to get to a far off destination tomorrow.
The rest of what you said in that quote is true , you are learning, you are changing the way you think, but after the first spew session you said never again, then you had the wobble a couple of days ago.You have to realise when you aren't "right" and just quit playing for the day ( which you have been doing) rather than letting bad plays make you play even worse and spewing wildly.
This stake is just one part of my poker journey (albeit an important first step). I will eventually be playing 1knl, of that I'm certain! But I hear what you're saying 1 step at a time and it makes sense.
btw when have I complained about how long it was taking to move up?!!
---
Blog Update!
Didn't play today but played first 4nl session yesterday and it went great plus 3bi's - so looks like i've broke the back of 4nl, and am ready to start grinding out some results
Last edited by LuckySlevin; 06-10-2011 at 12:32 AM.
no. you just had a winning session. i could have a winning session at 1knl. it wouldn't mean that i wouldn't get an absolute brutalising from the player pool there if i put in any volume. i'm not saying you aren't +EV at 4nl. i actually believe you currently are (and would be up to probably 10 or even 25nl if you didn't tilt). just sayin. one session does not mean shit.
Didn't play today but played first 4nl session yesterday and it went great plus 3bi's - so looks like i've broke the back of 4nl, and am ready to start grinding out some results
Originally Posted by rpm
no. you just had a winning session. i could have a winning session at 1knl. it wouldn't mean that i wouldn't get an absolute brutalising from the player pool there if i put in any volume. i'm not saying you aren't +EV at 4nl. i actually believe you currently are (and would be up to probably 10 or even 25nl if you didn't tilt). just sayin. one session does not mean shit.
^^ def this
Slev, as pleased as I am to see your progress through 2nl the bolded part of your quote worries the hell out of me. This is dangerously close to the mentality that you've shown in the past. Please remember that tilt isn't just an angry spew session. Any time that you are not playing the "A" game that keith and others have taught you to play, including from overconfidence, you are on tilt and headed for a train wreck.
I still wish you the best of luck and how about an update!
Originally Posted by givememyleg
i'll never understand how anyone can go through life being sober.
hey Fulsky, still grinding away. Still learning to beat 2nl.
It's discipline mostly (ldo). I'm getting there. But it's a slow old process.
i'm 9bi's down over 41k hands, but well up thanks to rakeback. I've decided with Keith I'm not moving up until I have 25bi's profit at each stake (because rakeback alone meant I could move up at 2nl). I will get there. I have a winning strategy now I just have to consistently implement it.
Check this out, the mouth at his best, I hadn't seen this before but if you have sure it will be a nice reminder!
Good job , glad to hear your so dedicated learning the game and moving up when you actually feel your ready. I'm kinda in the same boat trying to learn cash and hopefully i can stay as dedicated as you've been to doing things the right way.
well, gary blew the bankroll playing headsup poker between 2nl and 50nl last weekend outside the terms of the stake. He was going to pay me what he owed on thursday when he got paid. Still no sign of the money yet, but could take time to clear through his bank account and transfer to me.
I just hope that he isn't using it for his live roll.I hadn't said anything yet so that Gary could announce it however he wanted , but since it looks like he has released the news anyway just thought I'd clear it up.
Wow, lucky, you sure do remind me of me starting a poker. I was like, fixed to one limit I was grinding, but every now or then I wanted to have some "poker fun", underrolled. So I made occasional excursion trips to have fun: omaha, various tourneys, HU matches. And when I lost some cash there "poker fun" was no longer "poker fun" but "hmg wtf I gotta bring my money back", and then it turned out into a "loss chase" and ofcourse busted bankroll.
The thing I learned: don't touch your fucking MAIN GAME bankroll!!!
Or lets say it in prettier words: For each type of game you want to play and you are not specialized into, you need to have another bankroll, for example: 25BI for NL25 FR holdem, 50BI for 2$ HU tourney matches, 25BI for PL10 6max omaha. So even if I suck in HU or Omaha, I will at least suck within my bankroll limits.
Its kinda like life, you cannot have types of fun you aren't properly rolled for. For example I cannot afford myself a classy hookers because then I wouldn't have any money for food each month.
well, gary blew the bankroll playing headsup poker between 2nl and 50nl last weekend outside the terms of the stake. He was going to pay me what he owed on thursday when he got paid. Still no sign of the money yet, but could take time to clear through his bank account and transfer to me.
I just hope that he isn't using it for his live roll.I hadn't said anything yet so that Gary could announce it however he wanted , but since it looks like he has released the news anyway just thought I'd clear it up.
It's not like we couldn't see it possibly ending up this way, but sick nonetheless. I do hope LuckySlevin repays the stake so that this can end without hard feelings.
It's one thing to do this to himself, but another to do this on a stake. It's a real fucking douchbag thing to do Gary and the worst thing you could have done to fellow FTR'rs if this is true.
Now, at least he knows for a fact that, even with coaching, he can't beat the lowest level of online poker or live poker. So, now he can put his poker fantasies aside and move on with his life. I hope he never plays again. Oh, my bad, I should say that I don't give a fuck what he does. I just hope he doesn't start another OP.
To all you degens that enjoyed this train wreck, call me a hater. Whatev.
Explain...what I do for a living without saying "I make monies in da 600 enels by pwnin' tha donk bitches". Instead I say "I'm a online financial redistribution broker". - Sasquach991
In Gary's defence , he could beat 2nl , he broke even at 2nl FR over the whole stake after tilting away 14BI right at the start of the stake.If he could have stopped bluffing his stack away,stopped open shoving junk , he would easily have crushed 2nl.
to be honest once all my expenses were paid out this month I had more like 1 bi. e.g. I have a cpl of pretty esential outgoings i didn't factor in which add up to about £200. Having said that if I can do ok live, I know it'll be life transforming for me. I'm sick of having no money for 3 weeks of every month which is pretty much how i've lived my life for as long as I can remember. Most of my money has gone into poker online. Either that or in bars, I've cut the bars out completely now and am concentrating on my poker. I want to get to the stage where I've got money in my pocket all the time and don't have to worry about finding some cash to go on holiday now and again. Simple goals really. That's the starting goal, the secondary major goal is financial freedom to travel the world playing poker and meeting new people - but one step at a time...
So he has barely enough money to cover living costs because he's either spent it on alcohol or lost it playing poker. LuckySlevin, if you're reading this, as I posted earlier in this thread, it sounds like you need to stabilise your life before you even go near a poker table.
If you have 3 BI for your live game, type in 3 in the bankroll field. Enter a good winrate, say, 10BB/100 hands. Enter a typical standard deviation - try like 80 BB/100. With the above you get a risk of ruin of about 40%. If your winrate is half that, your risk of ruin jumps to 60% - that means a solid winning player with a 5bb/100 winrate is going more likely to go broke with a 3BI bankroll than not.
My suggestion to you would be to look into reforming your life entirely. Go out there and get a real job, so that you can pay your living costs. You can pick up where you left off with 2NL and continue to learn the game, and to learn emotional discipline.
The thing is the worst thing ever for slevin would be if he gets exactly what he wants...to finally hit the run of rungood and bink a roll. Eventually he'll tilt it off and lose it all but by then he'll have quit his job and be living well outside his means
The thing is the worst thing ever for slevin would be if he gets exactly what he wants...to finally hit the run of rungood and bink a roll. Eventually he'll tilt it off and lose it all but by then he'll have quit his job and be living well outside his means
It's discipline mostly (ldo). I'm getting there. But it's a slow old process. [/URL]
I wonder how this slipped my eye.
You are trying to discipline yourself? For a self-discipline, you need to be quite a character. And if you are a character you wouldn't need any discipline after all. We people are born that way, with lacks, flaws, a hint of discipline, or lack of it. And the thing is, turning discipline on or off is quite a big switch, but nearly impossible to find it by yourself.
So you gotta realize, no bankroll management can help you, nor any advice you read on this forum since your problem lies one step below. Why bother having a bankroll if you got no discipline to manage it? Why listen to advice if you got no discipline to follow it?
What you need boy is a drill sergeant, one that will knock you a tooth for every time you slip up and go doing things serge told you not to. Now, dunno how its in England, but in my country a new tooth costs around 100-200$, so it looks to me like some EV- move to fuck up.
But seriously now, without spewing my smartass jokes all over, before hiring a coach that is willing to come to your place and bash your skull into a keyboard when you slip up, you might wanna try to enlist in an army, or something fancy, like Xe (Blackwater). Or try some martial arts training sessions, full contact ofcourse, but make sure before buying in that your trainer has that special rabid-animal/killer look in his eyes.
Oh and i have really witty for the end: if CHANGING TACTICS didn't work, try BRUTE FORCE!
it sucks that slevin crashed and burned. although we all knew there was a decent possibility of this happening, it did seem he was making some inroads into his discipline problems, inflated sense of accomplishment and/or ego, lack of poker skills etc. at least we now know his problems are far bigger than their manifestations at the poker table, and a group of members of this forum gave up their time to genuinely try to help him overcome these - with no success. i just hope the terms of the staking agreement (whatever they are/were - the specificities are none of my business) are honoured.
an update concerning the only thing that is "due"
june 26th
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
I'm going to have to call it quits Keith, I just can't play these small stakes for months on end like this, I've just played hu 5-50nl, and lost, I'd just completely had enough of it. So many hours and weekends spent playing for what, you know, from now on I'm just going to play low stakes and see if I can't get somewhere, just playing a couple of tables.
I think it's the way I am as a person, I haven't got the patience to grind these stakes, well not for 2months plus anyway, but definately can't say I didn't give it a good shot.
I'll ship your stake back plus all of the profit from before I quit today, on Thursday if that's ok with you. I won't bother taking my small part of the profit and I'll round it up slightly and call it $90. Hopefully you'll have better luck with your next stakee Keith. I just can't grind nano/micro stakes anymore.
I appreciate the effort you put in to this Keith, at least this frees your time up to try with a stakee that might provide you more consistent results. ty for all that were involved.
Originally Posted by keith
i'm confused , according to your bankroll reporting
21-6 br $109.53
22-6 -6.23 and $103.23
23-6 -0.48 = $102.75
24-6 +6.45= $109.20
25-6 -3.00= $106.00
so i can work it out ,post a screenshot from the account section of the boyle client showing the transaction history ,bonuses available/history ,and the account home
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
This is cashier and transaction history
[attachment=1]cashier.jpg[/attachment]
the 90$ remove and deposit, was the last time I was going to withdraw to you then we changed plan and I asked them to redeposit it and cancel withdrawl.
My calculations: -
Initial stake $75
Bonuses: $84
total : $159
loss from 2-5nl (graph attached) : $60.94
[attachment=0]graph-gary.jpg[/attachment]
So total bankroll including all bonuses is, excluding any losses from yesterdays out of stake play is: $159 - $60.94 = $98.06
As said I don't want any cut of any profits, so will ship you this providing you agree. If you want any more ss's etc just let me know.
I get paid on Thursday and will send it Thursday night... I learnt quite a bit, I do thank you for that, I also thank you for having the vision / faith to involve me in the stake, in spite of my lack lustre history - It's just a shame I couldn't stick with it. I'm going to use what I've learnt and implement playing 200nl live so hopefully it won't be completely wasted. I found when I tried before live I had a fair shot at staying disciplined, so who knows with that and my improved strategy I might start turning profits yet.
Financially I think this is the farest way of working it out: i.e stake+bonuses - loss from 2nl-5nl with me not taking any profits, i have all data etc so if you want to verify anything just shout Keith.
Originally Posted by keith
There are no profits to split, you gambled them away yesterday. Original agreement was that in these circumstances you are liable for all the losses from playing above your roll and the original stake if it is lost playing outside of the way we want you to play. This would be unfair because you would be paying the stake money back twice.
I don't see why we should stand any of the losses from yesterday which were all played outside of the stake because you loosened up the ranges unilaterally and played hands that we didn't approve. You made that decision , you stand the loss.Same with playing 2nl headsup ....why should we stand those losses.
from the graph. the last "in stake" point was the $6.45 profit on the 24-6 which is the last peak at at approx -(37+(2*2.4)) or -$41.8.so 75+84-41.8=$117.2.
you may think that this is more than the bankroll that was declared , but you gambled away the 15$ profit split and were going to redeposit it a couple of weeks ago. From the transaction history that redeposit didn't occur and explains the difference.
June 27th
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
Ill look into this over next few days and post wednesday, for the record though, all br updates included full br, I wasn't reporting cashier (I had already included the $15 I owed the bankroll in the updates)
july 1st
Originally Posted by keith
need to see the bonus page to check that the 84$ is correct . but looks like 75+84+3.85 (tourney)-40.92(2/4/5nl losses)was the bankroll before the last day .split the tourney winnings and itsits 120$
July 3rd
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
i don't know how you can keep expecting the figure to be higher everytime you post?
There is zero $ in the cashier. I lost $99 + $15 playing out of the agreed stake.
$114 in total.
I was owed half of the profits, 114-75 = $39. Half of this is $17.50
So I owe you $114 - $17.50 = 96.50
If you don't agree with this please post why? and I'll check it out. You're obviously getting paid, but I do not want to get ripped off.
Thanks
Originally Posted by keith
from the agreement
payouts ..
------------
15% of roll at each $500 landmark:stakee cannot withdraw from the role until the stake is finished except to make the milestone payments.
i.e when bankroll hits $500 you pay us $75
@$1000 pay us $150 total $225
@$1500 pays us $225 total $450
@$2000 pays us $300 total $750
@$2500 pays us $375 total $1125 then grind it back up to $2500 to end the stake
total profit therefore of 2500+1125-75=3550
at 50:50 split is 1775......less 1125 already paid + repay original 75$ stake leaves $725 to pay us and would leave stakee with a 1775$ bankroll and still comfortably rolled for 50 nl
follow the formula through.
bankroll at end +payouts to coaches - original stake = profit on the stake to split
0+0-75= -75.
this is then adjusted by the penalty clause
penalties...
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all money lost playing above stakee's bankroll stake he owes us and will be taken from his share of the split at the end.
If the stakee goes bust at 2nl following the style that we advise the stakers will stand the loss of the initial stake.We don't want the stakee to think they can play fast and loose at 2nl and gamble trying to move up quickly. This is where the solid foundation to the stakee's game is going to be made and help to give patience.
If the stakee has a negative share of the split at the end of the stake , he owes us the money anyway.This is to deter stakee from playing above their roll.
you did not go bust at 2nl following the strategy we set out. On the last day you played fast and loose, weakened the cards you'd play and then played short handed and headsup.You made that decision and went ahead and did it without permission, you stand the days loss as a result.looking at the HEM data , on the last day you lost $103.78 and add on the $15 that you hadn't refunded to the roll from june 12th which you lost playing outside of the stake makes $118.78. DOn't forget as well Gary , This means that I am standing the first nights losses where you lost ~$28 and the later $12 spew session and all the times you shoved with air and lost a stack. Non e of those could be defined as playing the way that we advised.
According to the original agreement these out of stake losses were to be deducted from your share of the profit split and any negative would be owed to us. To deduct these out of stake losses from the final roll( zero) and then make you repay the original stake would be unfair as you pay the stake money twice although thats how the orignal agreement was worded as we expected a profit from the stake , not for you to gamble it all away. I think I'm being very reasonable to stand all the 2/4/5nl losses played before the last day as that included $40 of tilted spew and the agreement was worded to deter you from doing what you actually did .
And just to reiterate , there were no profits to split as you lost the entire bankroll.If you had said you wanted to stop before you lost the roll , the calculation would have been the $118.78 split but you didn't. you can't go back after taking a massive gamble and say that you want to reduce the aount you lost.You gambled the profits away . there are none to split.
Originally Posted by keith
I have a feeling i can explain some of the difference now and in the original calculatuions.its been assumed that you lost 15$ on june 12th but the deposit transactions screen shows a 3$ deposit to the roll from vip points before the withdrawal was returned .That 3$ may well have been lost before the redepois was made. will have to check when i get home and can lool at the database on the 12th.
july 4th
Originally Posted by keith
look in the database on june12th . you lost $1.15 playing 2 tourneys between 9.30 and 12 and lost $17.17 playing cash at the same time. A total of $18.32 not the $15 and ties in with the vip deposit to the bankroll after you withdrew the roll on the 12th.
so total owed is 103.78+18.32= $122.10
july 5th
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
I had just trusted the agreement would be fair, should have had a reasonableness clause in there or something.
Simply put
I play for x weeks, make y amount of profit, which we agree is being split 50/50.
I then play out of stake, lose x and y.
Reasonably I should not be expected to pay back any more than x and (1/2)y
Anyway I can't be bothered wasting any more time on it so I'll pay you your last agreed amount. The fact that when I originally decided to end the stake before we restarted I could have just taken half the bankroll but didn't because it wouldn't have been reasonable, as the early termination simply said bankroll is split, not profit, highlights the importance I put to reason being applied to the these kind of matters. But anyway. enough said on this Keith. I'll pay you your agreed amount. Will just need to bear with me a week or so. I've ordered a new bank card as the one linked with my paypal account expired in March. I've been told it'll be here in 7-10 days. Sorry for delay short of that I can post you cash but probabally not the safest way of getting money to you.
15th July
emailed gary with
Have you got the card yet? its been 10 days now since you said it would be 7-10 days.
18th July emailed to another email address of his
Have you got the card yet?
Sent: July 18th, 2011, 10:11 pm From:LuckySlevin To:keith
Keith,
I just wanted to apologise for delay getting you the bankroll from your stake back. I've had a tough month this end, and it's taking me a bit longer than I'd have hoped to reimburse your stake. If you can bear with me another couple of weeks I'll be able to pay you back.
I get paid on the last working day of the month, and I will be transferring the money to you that same night.
Sorry to mess you about like this. Thanks for the confidence to stake me in the first place. It wasn't misplaced. I will definately pay you back in two weeks.
1st August, heard nothing so emailed gary again
I get paid on the last working day of the month, and I will be transferring the money to you that same night
by my reckoning you should have sent the money on Friday.Whats happening?.
his reply
hi keith, still have some cashflow issues here. Mostly down to poker - and fact i've also left my job. I'm not ignoring you - I will pay you back soon, sorry its taking a while.
we knew he could blow the roll hence all the penalties to deter him from doing it.Didn't expect him having actually blown the roll to then have the choice of paying back what he owed or going gambling with the money in London casino's and for him to choose the gambling. Also planned on the affiliate income to offset the original stake money risk with 4 times as much going to us as gary until the first milestone payment was made. As it turned out boyles cocked up and gary got first deposit bonus so we got a smaller share as garys bonus got deducted from rake revenue and we got a percentage of that net rake.If it had happened as it was planned , the stake money would have just about been covered by our share of the rake.As it is we're about 20$ down .
and before Gary tries to claim that we haven't lost much therefore , the affiliate income was intended to help pay for the time we spent coaching him , reviewing hands etc.
We could ALL see this coming but I respect Keith and the other coaches for giving dumbass a chance. Dumbass had an opportunity to succeed in poker, thanks to Keith. The ground rules were solid. It was just a flawed plan due to thinking that the dumbass zebra could change his stripes, lol. I don't know how FTR bans are implemented, but dumbass zebra bitch should be banned from FTR, imo.
Explain...what I do for a living without saying "I make monies in da 600 enels by pwnin' tha donk bitches". Instead I say "I'm a online financial redistribution broker". - Sasquach991
I don't think the plan was flawed, we built in safeguards for the eventuality that he went bust. And if he was going to bust the roll i'm far happier that it was only $120 than $2500. But even in the $2500 scenario the milestone payments would at least have reduced our exposure. Also as Dan pointed out way earlier in the thread , he had a job , and disposable income so had the means to be able to repay any losses.
We just over estimated how much his reputation here was worth to him.Obviously not $120 .We also didn't expect him to lie so frequently either. Prime examples being through the quotes where he initially said it was 90$ that he lost , then that the bankroll that he had been reporting included the 15$ that he said he'd pay back into the roll, that the 15$ was really 18$ etc. His biggest losses always includes hands like folding jacks to 3bet /bet shoves for a small loss yet didn't include a lot of the really horrible plays like calling 3bets without set mining odds out of position with small pairs and stacking off unimproved. Then again hardly surprising from a gambler to lie to us as well as himself..
This is why I told you I didn't want to be a part of this at the time Keith. I do think it's pretty admirable though that you were willing to put so much into trying to help someone that clearly needs a load of help, but there are certain people in this world who are completely unhelpable. You have to be able to help yourself ultimately, that's what this whole deal was about. You weren't making things automatically better for slevin, you were giving him a great chance to help himself and to make things better.
Some people are self destructive by nature and noone can do shit for them. I think you've handled the whole thing really well and I hope you see your money again. It could actually have been worse - imagine he'd ran really good and moved up a few levels then got everyone's hopes up before bustoing everything away!
Can't imagine how many people here play micro's and would have loved this opportunity. Not so much the BR stake, but the coaching and mentoring opportunity is invaluable at these stakes to get your head out of your ass and make it into and through the SSNL's with ease.
Can't imagine how many people here play micro's and would have loved this opportunity. Not so much the BR stake, but the coaching and mentoring opportunity is invaluable at these stakes to get your head out of your ass and make it into and through the SSNL's with ease.
That was my first thought when I read about this deal in the first place, that it's pretty bitter that an opportunity like this is going to the person who has proven himself least likely to benefit from it.
That was my first thought when I read about this deal in the first place, that it's pretty bitter that an opportunity like this is going to the person who has proven himself least likely to benefit from it.